Jackpotting Around Podcast: Episode 37 - Keandre Ashley of Hoop Intellect

[Handlogten's Heros]

In the last week I think I've decided that VJ is the 3rd best guy in this draft (RIP Kas). I'm not sure if I would feel strongly enough to move 21 to get there, but maybe. Tre, Kon, Ace, Fears are in the same tier for me.

I would be in on Ace if I was PHI, but for UTA specifically I might fade him. Don't love him in a tanking situation and think we just make him into Rudy Gay 2.0.

The development path is key with Ace. Get him to buy into being Jaden McDaniels plus (at least to start his career) and you are on to something. If you ended up with Rudy Gay but maybe he hits like 37% of his threes and takes 6-7 a game that might be something.

If he's a hard worker and coachable then the development staff needs to do their job and mold him... if he wants to be 6'9" Jordan Clarkson he might be in trouble. I would ask Hardy to take the Hard Willy approach with Ace rather than the Lisan Al Gaib approach.

 

[KqWIN]

The development path is key with Ace. Get him to buy into being Jaden McDaniels plus (at least to start his career) and you are on to something. If you ended up with Rudy Gay but maybe he hits like 37% of his threes and takes 6-7 a game that might be something.

If he's a hard worker and coachable then the development staff needs to do their job and mold him... if he wants to be 6'9" Jordan Clarkson he might be in trouble. I would ask Hardy to take the Hard Willy approach with Ace rather than the Lisan Al Gaib approach.

That part about him buying into a role could happen in PHI….lets be honest it’s not happening in UTA. He’s going to be the best “hooper” on the team immediately. Gonna be hard to tell him to defend and learn role player stuff. I think we’ll turn him into Gay, Barnes when he tried to score, Wiggins when he tried to score a lot etc. Don’t think we’re the team to turn into the hypothetical good versions of those players or be the second/third team that turns them into a good role player after the shot maker stuff failed.

I don’t even mind that much if he really wants to be a scorer, but at least shoot decent shots. He’s just so obsessed with the mid range. Hates creating contact on offense and shooting 3’s for whatever reason.

 

[HermanG]

The development path is key with Ace. Get him to buy into being Jaden McDaniels plus (at least to start his career) and you are on to something. If you ended up with Rudy Gay but maybe he hits like 37% of his threes and takes 6-7 a game that might be something.

If he's a hard worker and coachable then the development staff needs to do their job and mold him... if he wants to be 6'9" Jordan Clarkson he might be in trouble. I would ask Hardy to take the Hard Willy approach with Ace rather than the Lisan Al Gaib approach.

I would agree on the path except but I'm pretty confident he wouldnt. After all he is the "I practice every shot" guy who "doesnt have weaknesses" in his game.

If we get him I'm gonna be thrilled but super scared at the same time.

 

[underdog]

I also enjoy the “dumpy white guy” argument. There is a dumpy slow white guy that is a multi-time MVP lol.

Scouts and mock draft people at the time: “This white, slow, dumpy guy must be good for nothing.”

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

That part about him buying into a role could happen in PHI….lets be honest it’s not happening in UTA. He’s going to be the best “hooper” on the team immediately. Gonna be hard to tell him to defend and learn role player stuff. I think we’ll turn him into Gay, Barnes when he tried to score, Wiggins when he tried to score a lot etc. Don’t think we’re the team to turn into the hypothetical good versions of those players or be the second/third team that turns them into a good role player after the shot maker stuff failed.

I don’t even mind that much if he really wants to be a scorer, but at least shoot decent shots. He’s just so obsessed with the mid range. Hates creating contact on offense and shooting 3’s for whatever reason.

I would agree on the path except but I'm pretty confident he wouldnt. After all he is the "I practice every shot" guy who "doesnt have weaknesses" in his game.

If we get him I'm gonna be thrilled but super scared at the same time.

Those quotes are worrying. Also, he's a super young kid. I would worry more if reports come back mixed on how coachable he is. It would be a balance of fighting his basketball nature and not choking out the parts of that you want/like completely.

Philly could go either way. I think Nurse is an *******. They are in a win now unforgiving market. He would have PG who I am sure he looks up to mentoring him BUT if PG is like "eff Philly" that could go the other way.

We are going to need to be a good development org like OKC... part of that is getting through to kids. IDK... Tatum had some Mamba mentality and Ant had weird quotes... for everyone of those guys I know there are a few Gay/Wiggins types that only give you glimpses and never seem to do enough with their talents... maybe we keep Collin if we draft him and have a GA connection guys (hopefully goes better than the Indiana connection guys) and Collin is able to convince him to be a maniac and coachable...

It is scary doe.

 

[framer]

Scouts and mock draft people at the time: “This white, slow, dumpy guy must be good for nothing.”

View attachment 18795

I mean most "draft experts" probably have more life experience as a slow, dumpy white guy than almost any other group in society. Game recognizes game.

 

[HadAnEffectHere]

Jokic's issues in projection went beyond athleticism.

1. There had been basically 0 successful ball handling centers before him and Embiid, it was unclear how his game was going to translate.
2. His jumpshot and general release point on most of his shots made no sense and were not picture-esque at all. The only thing Draftexpress wrote about Jokic was scouts being so confused at how he was making every shot at the Nike Hoops Summit practice with these wrong angle, wrong form releases.

There was no successful player like him before in NBA history.

 

[KqWIN]

Those quotes are worrying. Also, he's a super young kid. I would worry more if reports come back mixed on how coachable he is. It would be a balance of fighting his basketball nature and not choking out the parts of that you want/like completely.

Philly could go either way. I think Nurse is an *******. They are in a win now unforgiving market. He would have PG who I am sure he looks up to mentoring him BUT if PG is like "eff Philly" that could go the other way.

We are going to need to be a good development org like OKC... part of that is getting through to kids. IDK... Tatum had some Mamba mentality and Ant had weird quotes... for everyone of those guys I know there are a few Gay/Wiggins types that only give you glimpses and never seem to do enough with their talents... maybe we keep Collin if we draft him and have a GA connection guys (hopefully goes better than the Indiana connection guys) and Collin is able to convince him to be a maniac and coachable...

It is scary doe.

I don’t have any questions about Ace’s work ethic. I have question about what he wants to work on and what habits may or may not be permanent. He needs to be put in a box for a bit and change the way he views the game. Ironically, I think he be similar to Sexton in a bad way. Undeniably a great competitor and hard worker, but also finds a way to drive coaches crazy. I think they are cut from the same cloth, which is a good and bad thing.

Also, a lot of this just comes down to the capacity to learn. I feel like we kind of overstate the impact of just working your way towards something. I think most guys at the NBA level work hard and the ones who don’t are exceptions. How you can determine those with capacity to learn, I have no clue.

I don’t think Ace is that scary taking him or passing on him. He has a long list of improvement items, and it’s unlikely he improved on all or doesn’t improve on anything. He’ll likely end up in a place where you don’t really regret taking him but teams who passed on him won’t be kicking themselves either.

Fears is scarier tbh…because he really hinges on one skill that is volatile.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I don’t have any questions about Ace’s work ethic. I have question about what he wants to work on and what habits may or may not be permanent. He needs to be put in a box for a bit and change the way he views the game. Ironically, I think he be similar to Sexton in a bad way. Undeniably a great competitor and hard worker, but also finds a way to drive coaches crazy. I think they are cut from the same cloth, which is a good and bad thing.

Also, a lot of this just comes down to the capacity to learn. I feel like we kind of overstate the impact of just working your way towards something. I think most guys at the NBA level work hard and the ones who don’t are exceptions. How you can determine those with capacity to learn, I have no clue.

I don’t think Ace is that scary taking him or passing on him. He has a long list of improvement items, and it’s unlikely he improved on all or doesn’t improve on anything. He’ll likely end up in a place where you don’t really regret taking him but teams who passed on him won’t be kicking themselves either.

Fears is scarier tbh…because he really hinges on one skill that is volatile.

And that's where the coachability comes in. Collin has smoothed a lot of his rough edges. If Ace does that with his tools he will be something. At 5 its not as scary as you aren't passing up as many opportunities to look stupid. If I am passing on VJ, Kon, Tre (and everyone else obvi) to take Ace I'd be a little more nervous than passing on just Kon or Tre (I'm convinced VJ is gone). Or if I had to burn other assets to trade up to get him then its a bigger bet.