Jazz game tonight yada yada yada EXUM to Start!!

[Fishsticks]

Any talk of trading Favors and keeping Kanter if that's the option is just stupid however it is spun. Makes absolutely no sense to trade a far superior player and keep a lesser one.

 

[Julie Greengiant]

It was for Hayward to drive and get it over to Exum. Indiana did a great job to deny the passing lane along the baseline and foul Hayward.

I don't think the ball should be anywhere inside the 3-point line when you're down three with no timeouts under ten seconds

 

[LjJazzman]

Its obvious Exum is only comfortable camping out at 3 right now which is very frustrating. He can drive, dish, and create but its obvious he has to push himself to do it.

 

[sojodave]

Why in the world does Quin let Exum camp out at the three point line. I thought he would yell at him to drive the ball into the key. Who does Exum think he is, Kyle Korver?

 

[LjJazzman]

Anyone have highlights from the last 2 minutes of the game?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Any talk of trading Favors and keeping Kanter if that's the option is just stupid however it is spun. Makes absolutely no sense to trade a far superior player and keep a lesser one.

Especially if Kanter gets a bigger contract.

 

[zman1527]

Right now, I would say that Dante is not really NBA ready. He has it physically of course, but it is all a bit much for the youngster right now. With all the injuries, too bad they cannot send him to the DL of a month to gain some aggressiveness. Not trashing him, I have high expectations and fully support having selected him.

 

[Nate505]

I don't know what you saw, but Snyder did a great job coaching. He got a quick score from Favors and then had a chance for the 3 at the end after fouling.

Yeah, he did great until that (though part of me wondered why they fouled being down by 5 with 50 secs left and 14 or whatever seconds on the shot clock, but that worked out so good for Quin). But I'm still stunned Novak wasn't on the court...why is he on the roster if not just for situations like that?

 

[LjJazzman]

Yeah, he did great until that (though part of me wondered why they fouled being down by 5 with 50 secs left and 14 or whatever seconds on the shot clock, but that worked out so good for Quin). But I'm still stunned Novak wasn't on the court...why is he on the roster if not just for situations like that?

Exum fouled when he wasn't supposed to, thats why they fouled... Quin was not happy about it.

 

[r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t]

Any talk of trading Favors and keeping Kanter if that's the option is just stupid however it is spun. Makes absolutely no sense to trade a far superior player and keep a lesser one.

 

[freakazoid]

Yeah, he did great until that (though part of me wondered why they fouled being down by 5 with 50 secs left and 14 or whatever seconds on the shot clock, but that worked out so good for Quin). But I'm still stunned Novak wasn't on the court...why is he on the roster if not just for situations like that?

Just guessing, but he might be able to move him by the deadline to a playoff team that has lost a shooter to injury for a 2nd. I don't think he's anything more than a situational player, but a team with playoff aspirations and injuries might just take him. If that happens, DL will have picked up 2 2nds for acquiring Novak for 1/2 year. I'm just spit-balling here, but that's a theory.

 

[b_line]

Just guessing, but he might be able to move him by the deadline to a playoff team that has lost a shooter to injury for a 2nd. I don't think he's anything more than a situational player, but a team with playoff aspirations and injuries might just take him. If that happens, DL will have picked up 2 2nds for acquiring Novak for 1/2 year. I'm just spit-balling here, but that's a theory.

That is probably what DL has in mind.

 

[stitches]

Any talk of trading Favors and keeping Kanter if that's the option is just stupid however it is spun. Makes absolutely no sense to trade a far superior player and keep a lesser one.

I will quote a user from RealGM who responded to someone claiming Kanter is better option to keep and I couldn't help but applaud:

Funny to say on a night Favors has 27pts/11rb/2blks/1stl/1ast. I would like to see any basis for this statement backed up by any stat that would even come close to proving this... anything other than Kanter > Favors.... RPM, WAR, ORPM, DPM, VORP, plus-minus, PER, Win shares, Defensive Win Shares, I would be willing to accept anything. Right now Kanter has a RPM of -3.63, which puts him at number 67/70 for Centers (he's actually improving the last month he used to be at 68). He is only ahead of Kevin Seraphin and Jason Smith. Kanter is 69/70 in WAR for Centers, only ahead of Jason Smith. You wanna know why he is so low?? Kanter is playing by far the worst defense of any big man on this list (all 70 of them). He measures decently in ORPM, but defensively he is atrocious. The Jazz are 10.8 points/100 possessions worse defensively when Kanter is on the floor. Our offense improves when he is on the floor but not by enough to make up for the ridiculous amount our defense gets worse by. On average, when Kanter is on the floor our defensive rating is a 118.9/100, which makes the worst defensive team in the NBA (Minny at 110) look like the Spurs defensively.

Contrarily, Favors is 23rd in RPM and 3rd on the team (Hayward is by far the leader and Gobert is slightly ahead of Favors). Even more impressive is that Favors is 13th in WAR (just ahead of Pau Gasol), he is 2nd on the Jazz behind Hayward and ahead of Gobert. Derrick Favors has a PER that is top 15 in the NBA, whereas Kanter is just above average, which is impressive considering that one of PER's criticism's is that it doesn't adequately measure defensive impact where it is obvious Favors would dominate anyways.

The Jazz as a team are worse when Kanter is on the floor, and it isn't just this year. We are worse because despite our offense improving slightly our defense is horrendous when he is on the floor. If you trade away Favors and a top 10 pick, and Gobert is injured for any time our defense goes from above average to worst in the NBA if you are expecting Kanter to anchor it. I'd be willing to reconsider my opinion if you provide even a shred of objective evidence that Kanter is better than Favors.

Here are the links used. Find me something...

https://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM
https://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/name/utah/utah-jazz
https://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/UTA/2015.html

Enes will be an interesting case study about how much GMs in the league value advanced statistics vs boxscore stats. His PER 36 numbers suggest he can be a 20/10 guy down the road in the right environment, but he gets absolutely crushed in every single advanced metric you can think of. People compare Kanter to Monroe who last year didn't get an offer from any team(some say that he refused to sign offer sheets, because he wanted to get away from the Pistons and didn't want them to have the chance to match an offer and keep him for 3-4 years), but Monroe's advanced stats are MUCH better than Kanter's. He's in the top 25 PFs this season in both WAR and RPM, and he was 12th in WAR and 21st in RPM last season, while Kanter is in the bottom 5 in all of them both this season and last season.

Best case scenario, Kanter gets no offer and the Jazz offer him 4 year, 32M and he signs.

 

[Douchebag K]

Why in the world does Quin let Exum camp out at the three point line. I thought he would yell at him to drive the ball into the key. Who does Exum think he is, Kyle Korver?

seriously do you really think the coach is "letting' him do that against instructions ??? The same as all the shots Trey Burke is taking, i find it hard to believe these guys are going against coach's instructions and taking shots repeatedly that he doesn't want them to ???

 

[tleikheen]

seriously do you really think the coach is "letting' him do that against instructions ??? The same as all the shots Trey Burke is taking, i find it hard to believe these guys are going against coach's instructions and taking shots repeatedly that he doesn't want them to ??[/QUOTE}

I was going to say similar ,it's ignorant of basketball to think Exum is going to do anything different then what he's being directed by Coach Snyder.Can you see a 19 year old kid running his own plays outside of what his other older team mates are doing in the offense.He is where he's suppose to be.Most of those shots are designed to be taken .....do I like it ....No. I'd rather see him free lance some when he can too.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Just guessing, but he might be able to move him by the deadline to a playoff team that has lost a shooter to injury for a 2nd. I don't think he's anything more than a situational player, but a team with playoff aspirations and injuries might just take him. If that happens, DL will have picked up 2 2nds for acquiring Novak for 1/2 year. I'm just spit-balling here, but that's a theory.

Anyone that has watched Novak's limited minutes this year would not trade for him... he is awful. I legit think I could put up 20 if he was guarding me.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I will quote a user from RealGM who responded to someone claiming Kanter is better option to keep and I couldn't help but applaud:



Enes will be an interesting case study about how much GMs in the league value advanced statistics vs boxscore stats. His PER 36 numbers suggest he can be a 20/10 guy down the road in the right environment, but he gets absolutely crushed in every single advanced metric you can think of. People compare Kanter to Monroe who last year didn't get an offer from any team(some say that he refused to sign offer sheets, because he wanted to get away from the Pistons and didn't want them to have the chance to match an offer and keep him for 3-4 years), but Monroe's advanced stats are MUCH better than Kanter's. He's in the top 25 PFs this season in both WAR and RPM, and he was 12th in WAR and 21st in RPM last season, while Kanter is in the bottom 5 in all of them both this season and last season.

Best case scenario, Kanter gets no offer and the Jazz offer him 4 year, 32M and he signs.

Everyone is afraid he gets overpaid, but I am with you, I just don't see that happening... is he better than Taj Gibson? I think the range for him is 8-12 M per year. His ultimate destiny is a really good third big... Fans will likely always want more out of him. He could be Boozeresque if he ever becomes a good shooter, but despite popular opinion he is not a good shooter. I feel much more confident when Favs shoots a 15-18 footer than when Kanter does.

 

[stitches]

seriously do you really think the coach is "letting' him do that against instructions ??? The same as all the shots Trey Burke is taking, i find it hard to believe these guys are going against coach's instructions and taking shots repeatedly that he doesn't want them to ???

No need to speculate really since there are interviews in which Snyder has stated precisely what has been asked of Exum. In recent weeks I've heard pretty much every interview after a game by Quin. Every time he's talked about it, he's said that he wants Dante to take the open shots. And pretty much every single shot Dante has taken has been either open, or with expiring clock, thus forced to take it. At one point a week or two ago(in a single game I think), Quin talked about Dante avoiding to take shots and that he screamed at him for it and urged him to take the shots he's given. He also has said numerous times in the last several weeks that he wants Dante to be more aggressive and to probe the defenses more.

I don't mind at all him taking open shots he's given. What I mind is that this is the only thing he is doing really. People wonder why he had 0-0-0-0-13 statline last night. The softness is the main reason for it - huge part of his rebounds are from loose balls where the ball bounces on the floor before he collects it, he doesn't look for rebounds and doesn't jump for them. In defense, even though he stays in front of his man and his length creates problems, he's not very intense and pushy with his defense, he's kinda just... there. This is the reason why his steals and blocks numbers are actually about the same as Trey's PER36(0.9st vs 1st, 0.3 bl vs 0.3bl). The way assists usually happen is when you create an advantage and somebody leaves his man to help your defender, which leaves an open man to assist for for either an open shot or around the rim. I bet the scouting reports about Dante right now say that when he breaks his man he 100% of the time looks to pass and never looks to finish in the paint. This is the reason why nobody over-commits to help with Dante and this is the main reason why his assist numbers are down. They simply know that he won't attack and that it is much more important to guard their own man. Dante will never be a successful PG if he doesn't attack the rim and doesn't shoot in the paint.

 

[Douchebag K]

No need to speculate really since there are interviews in which Snyder has stated precisely what has been asked of Exum. In recent weeks I've heard pretty much every interview after a game by Quin. Every time he's talked about it, he's said that he wants Dante to take the open shots. And pretty much every single shot Dante has taken has been either open, or with expiring clock, thus forced to take it. At one point a week or two ago(in a single game I think), Quin talked about Dante avoiding to take shots and that he screamed at him for it and urged him to take the shots he's given. He also has said numerous times in the last several weeks that he wants Dante to be more aggressive and to probe the defenses more.

I don't mind at all him taking open shots he's given. What I mind is that this is the only thing he is doing really. People wonder why he had 0-0-0-0-13 statline last night. The softness is the main reason for it - huge part of his rebounds are from loose balls where the ball bounces on the floor before he collects it, he doesn't look for rebounds and doesn't jump for them. In defense, even though he stays in front of his man and his length creates problems, he's not very intense and pushy with his defense, he's kinda just... there. This is the reason why his steals and blocks numbers are actually about the same as Trey's PER36(0.9st vs 1st, 0.3 bl vs 0.3bl). The way assists usually happen is when you create an advantage and somebody leaves his man to help your defender, which leaves an open man to assist for for either an open shot or around the rim. I bet the scouting reports about Dante right now say that when he breaks his man he 100% of the time looks to pass and never looks to finish in the paint. This is the reason why nobody over-commits to help with Dante and this is the main reason why his assist numbers are down. They simply know that he won't attack and that it is much more important to guard their own man. Dante will never be a successful PG if he doesn't attack the rim and doesn't shoot in the paint.

true that, have to take what the defense gives you ... i'm hoping he'll wake up soon and start penetrating like he can. He didn't seem so reticent in the pre-season

 

[The Thriller]

its not hard to see why Exum didn't have a single assist. He's playing like Novak, a stationary 3 pt shooter incapable of putting the rock on the floor.

This is what worries me, he has zero attitude. Gobert is young and weak as hell too. But he's nasty and you can see it. Exum? Seems like a jolly mate. Burks? As I remember he was pretty young when he was drafted too. Yet, from day 1 you knew what he wanted to do on offense.

Exum seems petrified to do anything on the court other than stand on the wing and wait for a 3 pt shot.