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Jazz have 2 of the top 5 poorest defensive impact players.

fishonjazz said:
You should go through the gamethread from last night and count how many posts were critical of keyonte while the game was still ongoing. See how many were critical of clarkson while the game was ongoing. Then take a deep breath.
Also, you will find something amazing if you stop posting these posts. The posts criticizing keyonte will go down tremendously. What you are doing currently is continuing the discussion of criticizing keyonte. I know you are defending him but by doing that you are keeping the convo going.

Now take another deep breath.
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You are correct that I ignited this discussion with a very polarizing post and probably have thrown more fuel here than all others combined. Not my proudest moments.

But I fight for the guys I believe in (like many others here do as well, see Cy and THT or HH and TH), and thats not going to stop.
 
HermanG said:
You are correct that I ignited this discussion with a very polarizing post and probably have thrown more fuel here than all others combined. Not my proudest moments.

But I fight for the guys I believe in (like many others here do as well, see Cy and THT or HH and TH), and thats not going to stop.
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The thing is no one is fighting against Keyonte. Everyone still really believes in him. Even TU believes in him. No one wants to see him traded because he is bad, or wants to see his minutes get completely cut. You're fighting a ghost.

It's not remotely comparable to me/THT or HH/TH.
 
For me Key is passing the eye test on defense in covering his man. His zone and help defense has been fairly poor.

Other than some lazy passing, his decision making is relatively good, and he is really the only guard on the team that keeps the ball moving on a consistent basis.

He is doing fine for a rookie, but definitely has a lot of room to improve.

At some point Hardy needs to start holding him accountable if he continues to miss assignments and making lazy passes, etc.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
The thing is no one is fighting against Keyonte. Everyone still really believes in him. Even TU believes in him. No one wants to see him traded because he is bad, or wants to see his minutes get completely cut. You're fighting a ghost.

It's not remotely comparable to me/THT or HH/TH.
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I see a ton of good in Keyonte's game. His best talent, IMO, is a natural feel for how things move on a basketball court. You can see it in his instinctive passes to cutters, and in his timing when he attacks closeouts. It's good that he can already function like that in the NBA game, which moves incredibly fast.

However, I think Hardy is making a mistake if he's telling Keyonte to "spread his wings" by looking for his own shot (like some beat writer wrote) at this point. He doesn't need it yet, and he can't make those shots now. This is a guy who IMO has to find his own way of scoring the ball in the NBA, and it may end up being different than we all think based on his physical attributes and guys we've seen previously.

He should play. But right now he definitely doesn't need to start, and he doesn't need to carry the weight of running an offense AND scoring when he's out there. He can't handle it yet. Take it slow. He's been very bad in the role Hardy forced upon him, and the main goal should be to learn how to pick his spots and take care of the ball. Pay attention to defense, don't quit on plays. Be an average NBA guard.

He has plenty of time to spread his wings later if it turns out he has what it takes.
 
Keynote still needs a lot of work..... He could still turn out to be Burke or Exum
 
SoberasHotRod said:
The fact is that if we are serious about winning games we need to limit Keyonte's role (minutes or usage).

If you look up rookies with positive net ratings that have a usage % above 15% and were 19 or younger to start the season, the list is nobody. The closest player to meet that criteria is Podz who was 20 to start the season, and then after Podz you have guys that are much older rookies.

FWIW I don't think this Jazz team should be that serious about winning, and should continue to give Keyonte about 20 minutes a game and let him figure things out.
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Then why isn't Hendrix given the same opportunity? Like I said, if it was Hendrix who's shooting 1-7 he would get benched immediately. Why can't we let our 9th pick figure things out? I call this double standard and it's creating bad team culture and bad habits for players because we are not rewarding or punishing players based on merits
 
Tremendous Upside said:
I see a ton of good in Keyonte's game. His best talent, IMO, is a natural feel for how things move on a basketball court. You can see it in his instinctive passes to cutters, and in his timing when he attacks closeouts. It's good that he can already function like that in the NBA game, which moves incredibly fast.

However, I think Hardy is making a mistake if he's telling Keyonte to "spread his wings" by looking for his own shot (like some beat writer wrote) at this point. He doesn't need it yet, and he can't make those shots now. This is a guy who IMO has to find his own way of scoring the ball in the NBA, and it may end up being different than we all think based on his physical attributes and guys we've seen previously.

He should play. But right now he definitely doesn't need to start, and he doesn't need to carry the weight of running an offense AND scoring when he's out there. He can't handle it yet. Take it slow. He's been very bad in the role Hardy forced upon him, and the main goal should be to learn how to pick his spots and take care of the ball. Pay attention to defense, don't quit on plays. Be an average NBA guard.

He has plenty of time to spread his wings later if it turns out he has what it takes.
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Long story short, Hardy simply needs to learn from Orlando way of developing guards. Yes Fultz/Suggs/Cole Anthony will likely never reach their full “potential”, but all three will nonetheless enjoy a very long career thanks to Orlando not forcing unnecessary roles upon them.
 
jom2003 said:
Then why isn't Hendrix given the same opportunity? Like I said, if it was Hendrix who's shooting 1-7 he would get benched immediately. Why can't we let our 9th pick figure things out? I call this double standard and it's creating bad team culture and bad habits for players because we are not rewarding or punishing players based on merits
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I'm guessing it's because Hardy would like to maximize the team's chances of winning games.
 
jom2003 said:
Then why isn't Hendrix given the same opportunity? Like I said, if it was Hendrix who's shooting 1-7 he would get benched immediately. Why can't we let our 9th pick figure things out? I call this double standard and it's creating bad team culture and bad habits for players because we are not rewarding or punishing players based on merits
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If I were Hardy I would be giving Hendricks minutes.

FWIW, I don't think coaches care that much about bad shooting nights.
 
Agent#00 said:
And we need his rim protection more than his shooting. John collins is getting abused underneath.
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Between him and Keyonte, Hendricks is actually the one who can make an impact without making shots. But Hardy simply does not put any sort of trust in him and would look to pull him after every mistake he made.

Even worse, Hardy pulled him in the 4th Q during Knicks game when he was playing lockdown defense which allowed Knicks to make a run late that almost stole the W. He had a whopping +25 in 20min and we ended up barely survive with a 4 point W.

Hardy’s treatment of Hendricks and Keyonte serves a perfect example on how putting too much trust or too little trust can be equally as bad for player development.
 
jom2003 said:
Between him and Keyonte, Hendricks is actually the one who can make an impact without making shots. But Hardy simply does not put any sort of trust in him and would look to pull him after every mistake he made.

Even worse, Hardy pulled him in the 4th Q during Knicks game when he was playing lockdown defense which allowed Knicks to make a run late that almost stole the W. He had a whopping +25 in 20min and we ended up barely survive with a 4 point W.

Hardy’s treatment of Hendricks and Keyonte serves a perfect example on how putting too much trust or too little trust can be equally as bad for player development.
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Exactly. Keyonte's starting to look like Hardy's pet project or something. Like it's not even really about Key, it's more about Hardy's need to put his stamp of approval on a young player.

At this point I kinda feel bad for both these guys. Hendricks isn't getting a chance and Keyonte is in over his head and looking bad.
 
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