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Jazz trade for John Collins

stitches said:
For me the biggest question is - can we really not do any better than this in FA? Is this the best player we can get for 25M a year over the next 3 years?
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Yeah, that's fair. I think Kuzma would sign for 3/$75. I've been a fan of Collins and I think Kuzma is currently overrated, but I think Kuzma definitely has more value around the league.

I think the Jazz are in a better position than yesterday, but I don't think they got good value out of this trade.
 
Elizah Huge said:
Looking back at last year when it was reported we were interested I threw out a KO + Vando + Gay for Collins straight up deal. Ainge said watch this and did it without KO + Vando. God tier ****.
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No you need to admit your valuation was trash not that Danny somehow pulled a fast one on a desperate org needing cap flex. Collins sucks now
 
sip said:
That is such a weird take away. I'm stoked we used all 3 picks and this trade doesn't change anything really. We needed another pf/c and Collins fits in perfectly.
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Collins is redundant with Hendricks. Also we should be trying to maneuver to add the right assets and players to compete for real at between 2 and 5 years out. I think we could have done better on this front by using those picks to either trade up to get a higher level pick or as trade bait to continue to grow or morph our assets for that goal. But the 3 guys we drafted are highly unlikely to be what we need in those roles, yet now they are on guaranteed contracts. IMPFHO the opportunity cost of drafting 3 players in this draft is too high to justify using the picks vs using them in a trade. And then we use the picks on a guy that needs to be the focal point for development, then we go add a guy that fills that spot as a vet, thereby limited the developmental opportunities (i.e. minutes and role0 for the high level pick we did get. Hence, they are redundant.

But if you are totally happy with getting 3 draft picks. 2 of whom, at least, are unlikely to be huge contributors in our window, instead of parlaying those extra picks into other assets to further our goals to win a championship then I am happy for you. And I hope you enjoy your plain green jello with fruit salad in it for dessert. I, for one, want gold flake covered cheesecake with exotic berries for desert and to do that you have to crack a few eggs and take some chances to find the best berries. Give me the best berries dammit!!

Like I said, it could pan out that way, if they plan on other moves to use these guys we drafted to get better. But I think that using the picks as trade fodder would have been better than either Keyonte or the guy we got at 28 are likely to become.
 
Talk about getting a player at a bargain price!!!!! Danny does it again. Still I have to say that I'm a little concerned by this surprise development. You gotta know that Taylor Hendricks has to feel blindsided by this. Everything I've seen supports the contention that Hendricks is ready right now to assume that starting four role. Saw earlier where Hendricks was one scout's #1 prospect in the entire draft and when you look at his body of work it's easy to see why. Firstly, he won three state titles (between two schools) in High School; Secondly, only NCAA player last year to hit 60 three pointers, block 55+ shots and make 35+ dunks;; heavily recruited in college, electing to choose UCF over Florida, FSU, Miami, Memphis, LSU and others so that he could play with his twin brother Tyler.

On the plus side, it may influence Clarkson and THT to opt in for this season as opposed to exploring free agency. Although that may create a bit of a logjam at the one and cut into the big league development of George, it could signal a sure sign that we will for sure play it straight next season and see what this bad boy can really do including the playoffs. If that's the case, I'm all for it, because we were scary good last season and stand to be even better and much much deeper this year..
 
stitches said:
You CANNOT rely on those type of developments with every single player you trade for. This is NOT sustainable.

The Jazz didn't do that trade for Lauri Markkanen. They did it mainly for the picks. Lauri just won most improved NBA player. Expecting that type of improvement IMO is fool's errand.
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Well the Jazz put Tony on fool's errands somewhat frequently.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I have a similar feel... one thing I'd caution though... his value being rock bottom. If he plays the same as he did last year his value goes down... the case is he was used wrong the finger... yada yada... that stuff is gone if he doesn't play better (he'd have one year less on his deal so maybe not a ton less value). Just think this is his current rock bottom... doesn't mean he couldn't drop further.
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That's fair and I'd agree. The only thing I'd say as a counterpoint is that a bad deal that is two years long is better than one that is 3 years long....so we have that in our favor.
 
I think our biggest hope is that Kessler, Ogbaji and George really significantly develop over the course of the next ten months. If two of the three do, look out.
 
Remember who said this is nothing more than a salary floor thing, and Mr. C will be holding the bag in street clothes, more than he is contributing to winning in Utah
 
Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, but we actually need a contract like Collins' on our roster if over the next couple of years we want to be in the running to trade for a star. Otherwise we'd be looking at packaging together half our roster to make a move like that. Collins is probably overpaid, but on a team like ours that doesn't have any max salary players, a contract like this is good to have.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
It's funny to me people dislike this trade when they loved the Hendricks pick

Collins is the more talented version of Hendricks.
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Hendricks would project to be a stronger shooter.. I get thinking this is inconsistent but its not. If JC was on a one year deal or two year deal its a little more palatable. If we get some asset in the deal I am a little more in on it. The "duplication" factor is not a great thing but Taylor is a rookie.

Like I've liked PJ Washington but if you went and signed him now I wouldn't be enthused unless it was super cheap. Its not just about the player in a vacuum... its player, acquisition price, fit, etc. that makes me wishy washy.

Its not a deal I am like "this will never work out!". Its a deal I see the net cost and see some scenarios where it works out okay... but not a crazy high upside.

Like if you were going to do this I'd have been more bullish on going hard after FVV for a big contract.
 
Appears the Jazz are leaning into Lauri as a 3 to exploit a market inefficiency of 4/3s being a lower value than pure wings, and operating under the assumption that they can be played together with Utah's construct more than previously thought.

Have to think this theory was bolstered by Denver's championship run and then being the Western conference front runners. Jazz matchup extremely extremely extremely well vs the Nuggets now
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Hendricks would project to be a stronger shooter.. I get thinking this is inconsistent but its not. If JC was on a one year deal or two year deal its a little more palatable. If we get some asset in the deal I am a little more in on it. The "duplication" factor is not a great thing but Taylor is a rookie.

Like I've liked PJ Washington but if you went and signed him now I wouldn't be enthused unless it was super cheap. Its not just about the player in a vacuum... its player, acquisition price, fit, etc. that makes me wishy washy.

Its not a deal I am like "this will never work out!". Its a deal I see the net cost and see some scenarios where it works out okay... but not a crazy high upside.

Like if you were going to do this I'd have been more bullish on going hard after FVV for a big contract.
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People on the interwebs do not understand concepts such as net cost or opportunity cost. They just want to pwn so they don't get pwned.
 
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