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Game Thread Jun 18, 2021 08:00PM MT: Jazz at Clippers - Game 6

Added to Calendar: 06-18-21

Just a reminder that if the Jazz had the ability to guard Paul George with one defender, then Terrance Mann wouldn't have been open all night.
 
Jesus it just gets worse.
I knew nothing about Terrance Mann. But the fact that quins strategy seemed to be to put gobert on their worst shooter (Mann) and then hope he misses wide open threes made me think that Mann is normally a horrible 3 point shooter (like forest or something) and he just had an anomaly type hot shooting game

Dude shot 42% from 3 in the regular season. Wtf? Why put Rudy on that dude if the plan is still to have Rudy help and protect the paint when our perimeter defense breaks down? Dude is a GREAT shooter!
Wtf

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fishonjazz said:
Jesus it just gets worse.
I knew nothing about Terrance Mann. But the fact that quins strategy seemed to be to put gobert on their worst shooter (Mann) and then hope he misses wide open threes made me think that Mann is normally a horrible 3 point shooter (like forest or something) and he just had an anomaly type hot shooting game

Dude shot 42% from 3 in the regular season. Wtf? Why put Rudy on that dude if the plan is still to have Rudy help and protect the paint when our perimeter defense breaks down? Dude is a GREAT shooter!
Wtf

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And corner 3s, no less.

Jazz really didn't have a counter, though. Though, Legler's point that AT SOME POINT, maybe you just try a Donovan/Clarkson/Ingles/Bogey/O'Neale lineup to see what happens because what they were doing was obviously an unmitigated - and I want to stress UNMITIGATED - disaster.
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
Why the hell are you are you arguing with me for. I never said the jazz should take Mitchell out, just Conley, but having two injured players on the floor really put Gobert in a tough spot. I even said in an earlier post that Gobert should’ve been taken out of the game for a wing player. So shut the **** up!!!
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It’s always someone else’s problem... look Rudy didn’t have a ton of help but he also didn’t help himself. He had opportunities to make plays and got burned. He has to win some of those battles and he didn’t.

We’ve seen it happen in many different ways and when he’s had defensive talent around him and when he hasn’t. He just isn’t as effective in the playoffs and that is a Rudy problem.
 
Donovan on one leg was able to hang in against PG on one play and drew an offensive foul... he had a little help... he did nothing to help himself and whether it’s the scheme and Rudy or the scheme we need to play because of Rudy... the thing got absolutely torched.

When you are given evidence believe it.
 
NUMBERICA said:
And corner 3s, no less.

Jazz really didn't have a counter, though. Though, Legler's point that AT SOME POINT, maybe you just try a Donovan/Clarkson/Ingles/Bogey/O'Neale lineup to see what happens because what they were doing was obviously an unmitigated - and I want to stress UNMITIGATED - disaster.
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I probably would have started by trying to play some kind of zone. If that didn't work I would have told our guys to sag a bit and try harder to not get blown by rather than running them off the three point line. If that didn't work I would probably tell Rudy not to help at all and simply stick to his man. If that didn't work I would have tried taking Rudy out and going with ersan at the 5. Btw I would have been trying some of these things 4 games ago and figuring out what seems to work best of those options

I would have tried SOMETHING

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fishonjazz said:
I probably would have started by trying to play some kind of zone. If that didn't work I would have told our guys to sag a bit and try harder to not get blown by rather than running them off the three point line. If that didn't work I would probably tell Rudy not to help at all and simply stick to his man. If that didn't work I would have tried taking Rudy out and going with ersan at the 5. Btw I would have been trying some of these things 4 games ago and figuring out what seems to work best of those options

I would have tried SOMETHING

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Good post.

That’s… what is most crazy to me about the last two years. We had 7 games against Denver to try new things. We kept hitting our head against a brick wall. In a way, I kinda get it. We were without Bogey and we did have a 3-1 lead. I know most of us felt that at some point denver would eventually run out of gas and we’d finish them off. But that failed. You would’ve thought that Snyder would’ve had a “come to Jesus moment” after that series.

Then we had this entire season to try out new things. Why didn’t Hughes get any burn? Like at all? Every minute thomas was on the floor was a missed opportunity for Hughes. Why didn’t ersan get any burn? Why didn’t we play with the lineups a bit, especially when we had big leads? How often were we up by 20+ In the 4th and we still had the starters in? Why not experiment?

Finally, this playoff series. We knew at the end of game 2 that we:

1. Had to find a counter to the zone Lue deployed at halftime.
2. Had to find a counter to the Mitchell trap. Royce was too tentative to be Mitchell’s escape valve.
3. Had to find a counter to their small ball which drew Gobert away from the paint.
4. Had to give Mitchell a break. Mitchell was wearing down and we needed another ball handler to take the pressure of him. Especially once Lue unleashed Beverly onto Mitchell

We failed at all 4.

Why didn’t we try a zone? That was my first thought when we began to struggle in games 2 and 3. At the very least it would slow their offense down, force them to think, and force Lue to waste a timeout to draw counters. At best, it would’ve hidden our bad/injured defenders which would’ve countered their small ball.

Why didn’t we try going going small? By halftime in game 3 we knew that this wasn’t going to be a series where favors and Niang would be effective in. Why didn’t we try Ersan? Could Brantley have been effective? Why not try a lineup with Mitchell, Royce, Bogey, Jingles, and Ersan or Mitchell, Clarkson, Bogey, Jingles, and Royce? Sure, we couldn't defend or rebound, but we could’ve tried outscoring the Clippers. Right? If you don’t have any defensive counters, try outscoring them. Don Nelson used to use this strategy all the time in the 90s and early 2000s.

Why didn’t we try Forrest? I get he's limited offensively. But he would’ve been another ball handler. And who knows? Maybe with Beverley focused so much on Mitchell, he could’ve created a bit? At the very least, he could’ve brought the ball up the court and allowed Mitchell/Clarkson to catch their breath.

Why didn’t we try Hughes? I get that his defense left a bit to be desired. But was he any worse than the players who were in the starting lineup? Oni’s offense and fouling makes him unplayable. Like utterly unplayable. At the very least, he would’ve forced the Clippers to be concerned about his shooting.

I feel like the Clippers emptied their clip to win this series while we didn’t. We stubbornly stayed with our same lineups and same strategies. And now we’re on summer vacation with plenty of rounds left in the clip. We were just too stubborn to pull the trigger and try something different.
 
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does anyone know if theres a highlight or i should say lowlight package of Conley's 30 minute 1/8 game 6 performance?
 
One thing I would add is this question. How often has small ball really been the reason we lost in the playoffs? This series? Absolutely. They played small ball and killed us with it. It was extremely effective all the way around.

Last year against denver? Small ball isn't what doomed us (they didn't play small ball). Jamaal Murray going off did most of the damage.

The series' against the rockets? Sure they played small ball but from I remember the main culprit for those series losses were that we couldn't make shots. Like literally shot worse than any other point in those seasons in those series. And they were better than us anyway. Small ball or not. We were never supposed to beat them.

Against the warriors? Sure they went small but it didn't matter really. They were way better than us. They were one of the best teams in nba history and went through the playoffs sweeping and destroying everyone they came up against. Wouldn't have mattered if they played bogut 48 minutes per game. They still would have whooped us.

Or am I wrong here? Would we have beat the warriors and rockets if they played a traditional big? I dont think so. (in fact i feel like the rockets also beat us playing capela a bunch but I could be wrong.)
 
fishonjazz said:
One thing I would add is this question. How often has small ball really been the reason we lost in the playoffs? This series? Absolutely. They played small ball and killed us with it. It was extremely effective all the way around.

Last year against denver? Small ball isn't what doomed us (they didn't play small ball). Jamaal Murray going off did most of the damage.

The series' against the rockets? Sure they played small ball but from I remember the main culprit for those series losses were that we couldn't make shots. Like literally shot worse than any other point in those seasons in those series. And they were better than us anyway. Small ball or not. We were never supposed to beat them.

Against the warriors? Sure they went small but it didn't matter really. They were way better than us. They were one of the best teams in nba history and went through the playoffs sweeping and destroying everyone they came up against. Wouldn't have mattered if they played bogut 48 minutes per game. They still would have whooped us.

Or am I wrong here? Would we have beat the warriors and rockets if they played a traditional big? I dont think so. (in fact i feel like the rockets also beat us playing capela a bunch but I could be wrong.)
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Smallball probably isn't the right word for it. It's more the ability to force Gobert away from the rim.

The Warriors and Rockets series I completely agree with you. The Denver series, Murray was able to go off because conceding the 3 to him was the only way to prevent a layup in the Jokic/Murray PnR. We tried to rectify this in our second regular season matchup this year against Denver by putting Bojan on Jokic so Rudy could stay in the paint, and, well, needlessly to say that game went about as well as the 2nd half last night.

In fact now that I think about it... holy ****. That WAS the exact same strategy we used last night: Keep Gobert in the paint at all costs, even if it means giving up completely wide open 3's to good 3 point shooters. Denver had a historical shooting night from 3 that game.

Quin, wtf.
 
MT Steve said:
In fact now that I think about it... holy ****. That WAS the exact same strategy we used last night: Keep Gobert in the paint at all costs, even if it means giving up completely wide open 3's to good 3 point shooters. Denver had a historical shooting night from 3 that game.

Quin, wtf.
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That's exactly what it was. I can somewhat understand it initially, because you're banking on non-stars to beat you instead. But when the Warriors cut that lead down from 20 or so (Utah rallied back after the lead was cut initially and I think they led something like 90-70) to 15 or so he needed to abandon the idea.

But we never did. It was wild.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
It’s always someone else’s problem... look Rudy didn’t have a ton of help but he also didn’t help himself. He had opportunities to make plays and got burned. He has to win some of those battles and he didn’t.

We’ve seen it happen in many different ways and when he’s had defensive talent around him and when he hasn’t. He just isn’t as effective in the playoffs and that is a Rudy problem.
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What battles are you talking about? Because the perimeter defense didn’t do him any favors
 
Lord Bullingdon said:
does anyone know if theres a highlight or i should say lowlight package of Conley's 30 minute 1/8 game 6 performance?
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Definitely a case of "too little too late" but who does that fall on? Guys returning back to action after injury don't traditionally have great games in their first game back. Why not use him in game five instead of again waiting until the last possible minute? I mean his range of motion looked fine and it's not like he had a career threatening injury for Pete's sake. Hamstring strain and not hard tissue joint issues like Andrew Bynum had and was convinced to ignore. What Phil Jackson did to win was criminal, what Snyder does to win is just STUPID!
 
Thee Idiotic Minivan K said:
I think they call that good defense vs better offense, not sure what Gobert did wrong there. Jackson made two tough shots. It’s just too bad Jackson didn’t do that more often instead of passing to the wide open corner.
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One was a tough floater the other was just a layup... nothing fancy... same **** they did to him in game 6. Those are Rudy problems... we can’t say that when Rudy gets scored on it’s good defense just better offense but when the other guys give up points they are awful and need to help Rudy more.
 
tonstermits said:
Just woke up, it wasn’t just a nightmare after all.


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It wasn’t a nightmare for me as I didn’t watch the entire game. I had some doubles tennis to play in the morning and shut it off at the half. I did get curious and checked my cell right before I hit the hay. Up by ten late in the third I could see the writing on the wall and assumed the worst, but I didn’t lose any sleep over it. Being a realist doesn’t make a person less of a fan IMO.
 
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