Keillor and MeToo

[Getting Traded]

So you feel the same way and are up in arms when people are accused of theft and the only proof is a store employee being the eye witness?

It's not a comparable comparison, and I'm not ignorant on this issue. I just see it differently. And about the 12 year ago thing. Why don't you let it go. I've been trying to, but people on this board won't. In any case, you aren't a reliable person to comment on it because you weren't even on the board then. I know what happened and One Brow is not telling the truth, ok. How many times do I have to repeat it. So, please, stop it. I changed my username because of that incident when people got on my case because I revealed it, not someone else. And it all started because I was trying to get people to stop attacking people on the site and stick to talking about basketball.

 

[Archie Moses]

What was your old username, EM? Rom Mexico has been on the board that long, but changed his name too.

 

[gandalfe]

It's not a comparable comparison, and I'm not ignorant on this issue. I just see it differently.

Your very comments in this thread have shown you to have a level of obliviousness that is frankly somewhat shocking. Please stop proving what a shining example of the Dunning-Kruger effect you are.

 

[Getting Traded]

Falsehood -- An eyewitness does not need to be a third party. If I'm a store owner and I say someone took a candy bar and I saw it that's typically all the evidence needed for a conviction.

Try again!

That's a third party. Ford's accusations don't have an eyewitness or a third party. All they can say is that Kavanaugh was a drunken teenager. The point I'm making is that as soon as someone is accused, they're considered guilty, the same way in the 50s when people were accused of being communists. And people use statistics to back up the accusations instead of facts pointing to the particular case. That's what a lot of the articles in the press have done and most are written by women. The thing that bothered me about the Keillor thing was that only one person was identified so you really don't know if there were others and we don't know what the alleged others said because it wasn't spelled out. I certainly believe the accusations against people like Charlie Rose but Keillor is a much different persona. He may have crossed the line with that one woman but I think it was out of character for him to do that. It's hard to say because we don't know all the facts. Maybe I'm wrong but that's my gut feeling of the situation.

 

[Getting Traded]

Your very comments in this thread have shown you to have a level of obliviousness that is frankly somewhat shocking. Please stop proving what a shining example of the Dunning-Kruger effect you are.

Why don't you show me why I'm oblivious? Because I showed the many holes in that article that no one seems to have rebutted yet and merely has stooped to insults. How am I oblivious? I agree that men often sexually harass women. Have you read my comments? I just believe what is being termed as harassment has become absurd -- leering looks now are classified as harassment according to one of the Senators on the judiciary committee. These are the kind of things that I disagree with.

 

[Ron Mexico]

It's not a comparable comparison, and I'm not ignorant on this issue. I just see it differently. And about the 12 year ago thing. Why don't you let it go. I've been trying to, but people on this board won't. In any case, you aren't a reliable person to comment on it because you weren't even on the board then. I know what happened and One Brow is not telling the truth, ok. How many times do I have to repeat it. So, please, stop it. I changed my username because of that incident when people got on my case because I revealed it, not someone else. And it all started because I was trying to get people to stop attacking people on the site and stick to talking about basketball.

You claimed to never harass anyone and I proved you did. Also I was in the board then. So there's another issue you are ignorant on.

But that issue I care less about. You clearly have never talked to a women about sexual harassment and assault. I would highly recommend looking into this issue more and believing what women who have everything to lose by speaking up are saying. It's a pretty simple issue... Don't harass people, speak up when you see it happening, and believe people when they tell you someone is harassing them.

 

[moevillini]

It's not completely out of the realm of possibility that there are a few women who misinterpret actions and/or fabricate things but generally it gets to be know pretty quickly when someone is the type of person who tends to turn everything into a grievance - unfortunately that type of person would tend to have less credibility in these situations.

makes it tough though, because if you don't talk about it when it happens then there's less chance of having corroboration when an issue needs to be reported, but if you talk about these things happening too much then you can appear to be oversensitive

 

[Gameface]

I don't really know much about the overall podcast, might be audio-porn, whatever... But the series linked is about consent and was made before the #metoo movement started. It's pretty powerful.

https://www.theheartradio.org/no-episodes/

 

[Getting Traded]

You claimed to never harass anyone and I proved you did. Also I was in the board then. So there's another issue you are ignorant on.

But that issue I care less about. You clearly have never talked to a women about sexual harassment and assault. I would highly recommend looking into this issue more and believing what women who have everything to lose by speaking up are saying. It's a pretty simple issue... Don't harass people, speak up when you see it happening, and believe people when they tell you someone is harassing them.

You didn't prove anything. Harassment is when people do something continually, which was what was happening to me. I only called him once and asked that he stop. How is that harassment? I never called him again. In fact, I deleted his number and never considered doing it again, especially because the harassment thereafter stopped. Plus you are totally ignorant of the situation. Do you know of the relationship between Aint and One Brow? Sometimes I think it's some secret joke that other people are privy to, that people continually bring it up. I have no idea. But I was getting harassed. And yes I have talked to women who have been harassed. One of my former girl friends was raped. I know how that can cripple someone. But like I said when money and politics come into the picture, people have reason to lie and you have to be careful. That's why I find Ford to be suspicious, especially when no one will corroborate her and she can't remember any details like when or where it happened. No one else remembers such a party happened. I guess they were all so drunk their minds were blank -- who knows. Like I said, she actually has ties to the CIA and her father too. If she had more evidence, I would've believed her, but she didn't.

 

[gandalfe]

Why don't you show me why I'm oblivious? Because I showed the many holes in that article that no one seems to have rebutted yet and merely has stooped to insults. How am I oblivious? I agree that men often sexually harass women. Have you read my comments? I just believe what is being termed as harassment has become absurd -- leering looks now are classified as harassment according to one of the Senators on the judiciary committee. These are the kind of things that I disagree with.

You are so clueless that you think it's just "plain talk" that only 1/4 of all women could even be attractive enough to be harassed.

As far as leering: Say that every time you have a meeting with your boss, he's checking out your crotch, maybe leaning over to watch your butt as you walk... Imagine this goes on continually, maybe he licks his lips while he's looking at your package. Would that make you uncomfortable?

 

[gandalfe]

You didn't prove anything. Harassment is when people do something continually, which was what was happening to me. I only called him once and asked that he stop. How is that harassment? I never called him again. In fact, I deleted his number and never considered doing it again, especially because the harassment thereafter stopped. Plus you are totally ignorant of the situation. Do you know of the relationship between Aint and One Brow? Sometimes I think it's some secret joke that other people are privy to, that people continually bring it up. I have no idea. But I was getting harassed. And yes I have talked to women who have been harassed. One of my former girl friends was raped. I know how that can cripple someone. But like I said when money and politics come into the picture, people have reason to lie and you have to be careful. That's why I find Ford to be suspicious, especially when no one will corroborate her and she can't remember any details like when or where it happened. No one else remembers such a party happened. I guess they were all so drunk their minds were blank -- who knows. Like I said, she actually has ties to the CIA and her father too. If she had more evidence, I would've believed her, but she didn't.

Oh. My. God. You're going in to full conspiracy theory mode now.

I'm done. I'm absolutely done.

 

[Getting Traded]

You are so clueless that you think it's just "plain talk" that only 1/4 of all women could even be attractive enough to be harassed.

As far as leering: Say that every time you have a meeting with your boss, he's checking out your crotch, maybe leaning over to watch your butt as you walk... Imagine this goes on continually, maybe he licks his lips while he's looking at your package. Would that make you uncomfortable?

I was being sarcastic. But I certainly don't find all women sexually attractive and I'm no different than any other guys I know. And why do people make comments about things they know nothing about -- conspiracy mode. I just said I wondered why people keep bringing up that incident. I never bring it up. What I did 12 years ago has nothing to do with sexual harassment of women.

 

[gandalfe]

I was being sarcastic. But I certainly don't find all women sexually attractive and I'm no different than any other guys I know. And why do people make comments about things they know nothing about -- conspiracy mode. I just said I wondered why people keep bringing up that incident. I never bring it up. What I did 12 years ago has nothing to do with sexual harassment of women.

It's the "I was only joking, geez!" defense. Right. Of course.

I was talking about how Ford's "ties to the CIA and her father, too." (I assume you meant her father has ties to the CIA, not that she has ties to her father as well as the CIA.) Here, let me do away with all of that nonsense at once: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/christine-blasey-ford-cia/

 

[Jazz Traveler]

I think close to 80% of the women I know have been victimized by men at some point in their lives. Way, way more common than men know.

If you want the real truth, sit down with the females you know and have a frank conversation. It’s eye opening. Most women never tell a soul. Your grandmas, your aunts, your sisters, cousins, daughters, classmates, co-workers. It’s shocking when you realize how much you didn’t know.

Somebody who seems to be the nicest man in the world can be a sexual predator when no one else is around to witness it.

This really hits home. I have daughters that were victimized as children. I have a half brother that came from rape.

The MeToo movement hasn’t gone overboard. I just think most men have lived sheltered lives where they’ve never realized how pervasive the sexual victimization of women is in our society.

 

[Getting Traded]

It's the "I was only joking, geez!" defense. Right. Of course.

I was talking about how Ford's "ties to the CIA and her father, too." (I assume you meant her father has ties to the CIA, not that she has ties to her father as well as the CIA.) Here, let me do away with all of that nonsense at once: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/christine-blasey-ford-cia/

There's a lot more info here than what I had heard. In any case, if it's not true, it doesn't change my argument. I still think she was part of a plot to sabotage Kavanaugh because of her inability to give evidence that corroborated her testimony.

 

[Getting Traded]

I think close to 80% of the women I know have been victimized by men at some point in their lives. Way, way more common than men know.

If you want the real truth, sit down with the females you know and have a frank conversation. It’s eye opening. Most women never tell a soul. Your grandmas, your aunts, your sisters, cousins, daughters, classmates, co-workers. It’s shocking when you realize how much you didn’t know.

Somebody who seems to be the nicest man in the world can be a sexual predator when no one else is around to witness it.

This really hits home. I have daughters that were victimized as children. I have a half brother that came from rape.

The MeToo movement hasn’t gone overboard. I just think most men have lived sheltered lives where they’ve never realized how pervasive the sexual victimization of women is in our society.

You may be right but I haven't experienced it, though I have heard some stories. Women are more likely to tell other women about this, though, than men. Still you can't use that to discredit someone in a separate incident if there is no evidence related to that incident. That has been my position all along.

 

[gandalfe]

You ABSOLUTELY ignored my point about leering, by the way. Don't think I didn't notice that you like to ignore things you don't think you can refute.

 

[Red]

There's a lot more info here than what I had heard. In any case, if it's not true, it doesn't change my argument. I still think she was part of a plot to sabotage Kavanaugh because of her inability to give evidence that corroborated her testimony.

You abandoned the discredited conspiracy theory very quickly, and said it doesn't matter. But, what that did reveal is that you were willing to simply accept those theories uncritically in the first place, because they buttressed your beliefs about Dr. Ford. Which can be seen as demonstrating your beliefs about Dr. Ford are not necessarily based on a rational analysis of Ford or her testimony, as you likely would claim, but more likely on an underlying prejudice against Ford in general.

Your willingness to embrace conspiracy theories reflects poorly on your judgement, you're human, it happens. But, throwing them right out the window that quickly demonstrates you had a preconceived conclusion to begin with, which is your right, but what really needs to be questioned is whether those preconceived conclusions are based in your attitude about women in general. Now, it's not my place to suggest you take a good look at underlying beliefs, that's up to you.

 

[moevillini]

...Harassment is when people do something continually...

that's pretty much how I would define it

I think close to 80% of the women I know have been victimized by men at some point in their lives. Way, way more common than men know...

True, although I honestly have rarely been victimized to the point that I feel threatened - and in some of those situations where I have felt some degree of threat, it's often been where the guy doesn't do anything in particular, but is just sort of creepy and in my general presence (sitting next to me on the bus, walking the same direction as me) and I feel uncomfortable.

More typically, when guys behave like jerks I ignore them and that's often the end of it - - if it persists to the point that I have to tell them to "cut it out" or whatever, they generally comply - - or if it's just someone trying to be friendly and make a "connection" most will take the hint if you tell them you're not interested - really in my experience, while they certainly do exist, most guys don't intentionally want to harass women

Particularly not random women - but I do think it's more common in workplace situations where there is more opportunity to harass and perhaps also a power imbalance (a family situation would be similar, the frequent contact presents frequent opportunity)

 

[Ron Mexico]

You didn't prove anything. Harassment is when people do something continually, which was what was happening to me. I only called him once and asked that he stop. How is that harassment? I never called him again. In fact, I deleted his number and never considered doing it again, especially because the harassment thereafter stopped. Plus you are totally ignorant of the situation. Do you know of the relationship between Aint and One Brow? Sometimes I think it's some secret joke that other people are privy to, that people continually bring it up. I have no idea. But I was getting harassed. And yes I have talked to women who have been harassed. One of my former girl friends was raped. I know how that can cripple someone. But like I said when money and politics come into the picture, people have reason to lie and you have to be careful. That's why I find Ford to be suspicious, especially when no one will corroborate her and she can't remember any details like when or where it happened. No one else remembers such a party happened. I guess they were all so drunk their minds were blank -- who knows. Like I said, she actually has ties to the CIA and her father too. If she had more evidence, I would've believed her, but she didn't.

Again you are showing your ignorance. Harassment doesn't have to be continual to be harassment.

I'm aware of your side of the story you have sent me multiple long pms about to me about this, for some unknown reason. You have also sent pms about this to many people on here.

It's pretty silly that you are trying to buy into any conspiracy that you can instead is believing someone. Also why are you bringing up some other random situation? You're desperately trying to find 1 case to justify your beliefs. The vast majority of women don't get any justice for being sexually assaulted, the vast majority tell the truth when they say what happened, most women will get sexually harassed or worse.