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Leonard Cohen on Kanye West

As for Kanye meeting with Trump, who gives a ****? Is that really news? When Bono met with Obama was it some media circus?

Or is the story that a black rap artist reared in the degenerate and hedonistic culture of Hollywood is somehow a traitor for meeting with the President whom Hollywood has labeled an enemy?
 
I'm somewhat familiar with how ground has been prepared for socialist revolutions, historically speaking. It's a multi-step game plan that includes fomenting civil unrest, amplifying state-controlled demagogic media, dissolving of traditional culture and moral standards, increasing the authority of central banks (which happened long ago), setting one social class against another, and advocating for violence against those labeled as oppressors. Angry mobs are weaponized and used as tools to overturn the establishment.

In the end, I don't think such a thing will really come to fruition in the U.S., though a certain more leftist faction of people may advocate for it.

It seems to me that the more liberals and mainstream media follow Trump around and make disparaging remarks and hollow criticisms about literally everything he says and does, the more they appear not to have much of a clear direction of their own--as though their entire identity hinges upon opposing and criticizing Trump, whatever he does.

Initially, I thought Trump was being criticized for being a somewhat boorish, straight-talking business man, in other words, for being crude and uncultured. But now, that seems to have worn off, and the real animosity towards Trump is due to the fact that he represents a more conservative agenda and is bull-headed enough to push it ahead. A decade or more worth of social and political liberalism is being turned back, and leftist ideologies are being exposed in the process.

Sounds pretty reasonable as a general view.

I don't think any seriously big, as in BIG, influential movers and shakers really believe any form of socialism. Use it, sure. Believe it, no.

Some nice little true believers can believe their ideology and/or love it as much as any little old church lady can love her Jesus. But in my experience, most more or less young progressives come from fairly well-to-do families. Their idealism is kinda charming, a sort of rite of passage. Out on their own, with no real financial realities impinging on their personal decisions because dad is paying the tuition. Every school or college has some true believer staff profs or tas because that's a sort of closed culture "cool".

being a true progressive believer doesn't last long, unless the young'un lands a guvmint job. Then it's a lifelong security thing. Gotta run the world right, ya know.

For the rest of us, it wears thin within a decade and we're left licking our wounds so to speak, for all the stupid we've done, for no good reason and no pay.

A socialist coup could happen in the US, but I think it'd be the beginning of the end for all globalist idealism. The fascist regime might stand for a decade though. The world population would have a significant die-out.

But the fact is, socialism just doesn't work. Won't work.

And the contenders for the leadership of it will turn cannibal within their own ranks. There is no stable moral in it. It will always reduce to the fundamental primitive one-man rule with that one man suspicious and ruthless. The ranks of the managers will similarly thin out, and the regime enforcement troops will starve and die.

And the folks who survive will make a new legend of how wrong it all was.

So far, because of some prospering centers of freedom or capitalism, we've managed. Whether we can maintain that critical mass of productivity is the question.

Today, China's Xi is going all Mao and losing his Confucian wisdom. Overextending "Empire" has always proven to have limits for the Chinese. Roughly, once any aggressor has expanded far enough to run outta peacekeeping troops, the natives have pushed the regime back.
 
As for Kanye meeting with Trump, who gives a ****? Is that really news? When Bono met with Obama was it some media circus?

Or is the story that a black rap artist reared in the degenerate and hedonistic culture of Hollywood is somehow a traitor for meeting with the President whom Hollywood has labeled an enemy?

Sonnie Johnson, a nominally "Republican" black lady with a lot of history and hip hop to her, has been riding the Republican speaking circuit for years. Lots of history in her book and she wears the black proud. Lots of good sense, too. Dems have been pretty rough on a bunch of uppity conservative blacks over the years.

I am not the expert on the subject, but the drift I get is that Kanye was an inspiration to young Sonnie because of some lyrics about kids struggling with life circumstances common in the black community and learning to break out in some success. So Kanye has always had some of that Trumpishness about just being successful. I don't think there ever was any ideological Republican in either of them.

None of that American Civics about representative government and limited mutually-policing branches of guvmint. Just a lot of street marketing and good sense..... which the guvmint somehow failed to curb. Now they just want to spread the good word. Just get the guvmint outta the way and let people do smart stuff that pays good, besides drugs.

But the Dems are looking at a scattering flock of dependable voters. Might only get 70% of the black vote if Kanye's message gets out. Not that Kanye really cares about the R. Like Sonnie says it's not about the Red or Blue, but all about the green.
 
We live in a world where we challenge whether former GOP employees are republican. Because, you know, well, our gut says so. Evidence, reasoning? That is so pretrumpian.
 
Well, that was downright nice of you.

"sociopath" is another made-up label humans resort to in some pathetic attempts to classify and dismiss one another. It means, essentially, in the simplest possible terms, one who is not readily or securely "normal". In the "official" handbook there is a listed set of symptoms to be judged without any objective rules.

I generally like artists who are unique and intelligent, and who have some kind of intellect and style of their own. I think I like Leonard Cohen, and I'm going to take some time to enjoy his work. Obviously, he had some kind of point in his poem in the OP that is much more than a beastial chest-thumping brag.

About one in ten humans is generally within the operating range of the term "sociopath".... roughly the same ratio as are left-handed. Some, however, do stuff that hurts others, and don't even feel sorry. The worst offenders are generally lawyers and politicians, if not successful enough to become billionaires with notions of global governance.

I think artists, if sociopathic, are generally harmless because their talents are directed at some voluntary audience.

I'm very happy that you liked the selection of Cohen songs I posted. Probably my favorite artist of my lifetime really. He was good friends with Bob Dylan, and Dylan once told him that Cohen would have to settle for second place among artists of his generation, that he, Dylan was first. Cohen didn't argue the point, but I might, lol. I discovered him in 1967, with his first album, The Songs of Leonard Cohen. My roommate and I played it daily that summer, then I lost track of Cohen for many years. He became hugely popular in Europe, but was lesser known in America. It was only after he came out of retirement, I think in 2009, that I realized all that I had missed, and immediately started making up for lost time.

I realize this thread is more about West then Cohen, but I'll use any excuse to introduce anyone to Leonard Cohen.

In any case, I think the world needs more of joyful music like this. Cohen was a master at selecting female voices to accompany him, not to mention all the other musicians that graced the stage with him:



In this rendition of Cohen's Joan of Arc, Jennifer Warnes sings the part of Joan of Arc, the day she was burned at the stake, and Cohen gives voice to the fire that consumed her. Such a beautiful song...

 
I'm somewhat familiar with how ground has been prepared for socialist revolutions, historically speaking. It's a multi-step game plan that includes fomenting civil unrest, amplifying state-controlled demagogic media, dissolving of traditional culture and moral standards, increasing the authority of central banks (which happened long ago), setting one social class against another, and advocating for violence against those labeled as oppressors. Angry mobs are weaponized and used as tools to overturn the establishment.

In the end, I don't think such a thing will really come to fruition in the U.S., though a certain more leftist faction of people may advocate for it.

It seems to me that the more liberals and mainstream media follow Trump around and make disparaging remarks and hollow criticisms about literally everything he says and does, the more they appear not to have much of a clear direction of their own--as though their entire identity hinges upon opposing and criticizing Trump, whatever he does.

Initially, I thought Trump was being criticized for being a somewhat boorish, straight-talking business man, in other words, for being crude and uncultured. But now, that seems to have worn off, and the real animosity towards Trump is due to the fact that he represents a more conservative agenda and is bull-headed enough to push it ahead. A decade or more worth of social and political liberalism is being turned back, and leftist ideologies are being exposed in the process.
It's hard to take you seriously when you characterize Trump as being a "straight-talker" when the guy contradicts himself sentence to sentence and then argues that he did no such thing. It's pure ****ing insanity, not "straight-talk."
 
As for Kanye meeting with Trump, who gives a ****? Is that really news? When Bono met with Obama was it some media circus?

Or is the story that a black rap artist reared in the degenerate and hedonistic culture of Hollywood is somehow a traitor for meeting with the President whom Hollywood has labeled an enemy?
I've thought this too. I saw Cenk from the Young Turks flat out called Kanye mentally ill and 40% of the country follows the mentally ill.

I don't know a lot about Kanye, personally. He may very well be mentally ill, but I think it's more of a smear campaign and scare tactic of people nowadays. If you don't think the same, then you're obviously mentally ill, morally wrong and should be shamed and ostracized.

I think Kanye is a lot like the kid that grows up with controlling and strict parents. If told not to do something, he'll find reasons to do it and focus on the good from it. That guy loves that damn MAGA hat and it's not so much that he's a huge Trump supporter. He feels empowered wearing it and is his way of proving he won't be controlled. The TMZ interview where the guy asked him to remove it - like it was a swastikas, painted a pretty good picture of you're not allowed to hold conservative beliefs or you will be censored by many.

I think it was classless of SNL to have Kanye on a few weeks ago and make him feel bad about wearing the hat to the degree they did (giving people **** is healthy, but people cross it too much in politics) and then do a skit making fun of him a few weeks later. Tbh, I didn't watch it, but I assume that's what it was.

The problem with Kanye and Taylor Swift (and any other celebrity for the matter) is many of their fans will know more about if their stance is liberal or conservative than about why they actually believe the way they do. I see a ton of conservatives on Kanye's dick like ESPN is on LeBron's, but they're also the first ones to say, who cares what Jim Carrey (he's pretty active in politics and painting his feelings) or any celebrities think! On the other hand, liberals are vocally supporting Swift and trashing on Kanye.

We live in a weird world, man.
 
Celebrities have played a role in politics before. When Hillary was running for President, her campaign went out of its way to show Hillary on stage with Beyonce and Jay Z, and show support from others like Miley Cyrus, Katy Perry, and such. They were trying to appeal to younger people. The reality is that most people who vote don't care about the political views that these pop artists hold. It's not really their area of expertise or competence, and it comes off as pretty shallow promotion for the politician. So it's easy to poke fun of. But for media to attack Jay Z as the "negro who doesn't read" because he met with Trump and aired his views, is a pretty low blow. It shows the character of the media and how hell bent they are to attack literally everything Trump says and does on a daily basis.

The real issue in America is that there is a rift, a real conflict of opinion between conservatives and liberals, that shows up on a number of real issues. Both sides are grandstanding and playing politics for all they're worth. What certain liberals and progressives see as "progress," including things like liberal policies on immigration, socialized medicine, same-sex marriage, legalizing marijuana, government intervention and regulations in business, loose trade agreements, etc., the conservatives see as "decadence," the decay of traditional values and the compromise of American sovereignty to a globalist, even socialist, agenda.

The division among people in the liberal and conservative camps is more stark than I think I've ever seen before.
 
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