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I hadn't thought about Crime and Punishment in a long time, but it made me reflect about the time I read it, and I also was reading Nietzsche then. I seem to recall that Dostoevsky was influenced by Nietzsche and that Raskolnikov sought redemption by confessing to the murder, elevating him to being like God. Nietzsche did say God is man; man is God, that we elevate ourselves by using our free will and taking responsibility for our actions. Yes, Nietzsche was an atheist, an existentialist but believed we create our own meaning and morality in our lives, and that's what led Raskolnikov to confess.

I don't think it's accurate to call Nietzsche an atheist. Leave that term for the empiricists.

Nietzsche didn't say "God is dead. We killed him" just to be cheeky. He doesn't just employ this sentiment when speaking about the abrahamic God. In The Birth of Tragedy he speaks about Apollo and Dionysus not as mythological tales but as historical figures that had a very real legacy to be examined.

I think that calling Nietzsche an atheist is totally missing the point. It is what for Nietzsche would be a perfectly predictable misunderstanding of his work coming from a person living/thinking in an empirical age.
 
This is going to be a random question. Does anyone believe in astral projection and or have had experience doing it? I don't, but I know a few people who are very adamant they have. I like listening to astral projection beats or waves on YouTube and the comment sections are crazy.

Lastly, have any of you heard of homunculus? There's a Russian alchemist that supposedly created creatures using human seamen and a chicken egg. I do not believe this is possible, but watching the videos at 3 AM on YouTube is interesting af.




Hehepeepeecaca
 
This is going to be a random question. Does anyone believe in astral projection and or have had experience doing it? I don't, but I know a few people who are very adamant they have. I like listening to astral projection beats or waves on YouTube and the comment sections are crazy.

Lastly, have any of you heard of homunculus? There's a Russian alchemist that supposedly created creatures using human seamen and a chicken egg. I do not believe this is possible, but watching the videos at 3 AM on YouTube is interesting af.




Hehepeepeecaca


lol
 
W

Wrong thread? ;)

No. I'm sure it's fine here. I just find personal testimony to be worthless. Literally worth nothing. Someone telling me that they know something unverifiable to be true due to personal experience is about as interesting to me as someone claiming to divine the future thru dream interpretation.
 
No. I'm sure it's fine here. I just find personal testimony to be worthless. Literally worth nothing. Someone telling me that they know something unverifiable to be true due to personal experience is about as interesting to me as someone claiming to divine the future thru dream interpretation.

I don't necessarily believe that personal testimony is worthless. I take individual accounts and see what evidence they are based off of then form a conclusion of whether I believe them, don't believe them or wouldn't doubt it one way or another.

In terms of astral projection, spirit guides, the third eye, I have my own theory of belief on it. If you've ever met someone who's had an out of body experience or has projected before, they are 100% convinced of it. I don't think they are making it up. I do, however, believe there's an scientific answer for it even though we may not understand it fully.

I believe out of body experiences are not truly out of body experiences, but rather brain chemical reactions produced during sleep that causes very real, vivid and concious dreaming in an alter state. I think it's tied in closely with the phenomenon of sleep paralysis. Those who can project at will are able to control this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

I think there are many different levels of sleep paralysis and some experience it very differently than others. I had my first episode of sleep paralysis right before I went on my mission. I had no idea what it was or what happened at the time.

Basically, I went to bed and locked my door with a cabin hook latch I had on the door. I don't remember dreaming at all that night. When I woke up I remember feeling pressure on my covers, like something was on me. As I begin to wake up, I suddenly realized there was something all over my bed. My dresser, which was right next to my bed, had each drawer's content emptied on top of my covers and the drawers were placed on the ground all around my bed. I thought it was a prank by my brother's or my step mom was pissed at me for something (I don't hold anything past her,) but again, my door was locked and there was no way for someone to enter my room.

My family gave me **** for it, but thought it was creepy. I had never slept walked in my life and was convinced I hadn't done it. It was something I didn't like to think about and gave me the creeps. At the time, I was religious and believed in demons and the adversary. Now, I'm convinced it was me and it was my first brush in with sleep paralysis.

My second incident with sleep paralysis was when I got home from my mission. I remember waking up in the morning, but I was completely frozen to my bed and I couldn't move. My bed began to heat up like an oven and began to violently shake. I don't know how long I experienced this for, but it scared me so bad I never told anyone for a year because I thought they would think I'm crazy.

A few years later, I started having sleep paralysis all the time, but nothing any more scary than being awake but not being able to move. I learned about sleep paralysis and was relieved there was a scientific answer for these crazy dreams or experiences I had all the time.

A lot of people who get sleep paralysis experience some crazy ****. Many think someone is sitting on their chest or someone is standing above them or in their room. I think people who think they were possessed by the devil or have been abducted by aliens are just experiencing sleep paralysis. I think people who say they astral project experience the same thing and are convinced because the experience is so unbelievably real.

I've learned how to handle sleep paralysis and have probably experienced it 50 times or so in my life. Sometimes, it much more intense than other times. I've learned not to fight it or try and move - that turns very scary real quick. If I'm by myself, I try and relax and fall back asleep. There is one thing I can physically control during an episode and it is my breathing. I can breathe really quick through my teeth and make a weird noise. I've taught my girlfriend to physically shake me and wake my *** up if she hears me doing this while sleeping which she has, many times now. It still freaks her out. Lol

Even though I know what's going on, it still is scary almost every single time for me. Last year, I had my scariest experience of all during an episode of sleep paralysis while on a business trip to Prescott, AZ. Thinking of it still makes my hair on my neck stand.

Probably too long and too much to share. I'm waiting to board a plane in PHX. Anyone else have experiences with sleep paralysis?
 
I don't necessarily believe that personal testimony is worthless. I take individual accounts and see what evidence they are based off of then form a conclusion of whether I believe them, don't believe them or wouldn't doubt it one way or another.

In terms of astral projection, spirit guides, the third eye, I have my own theory of belief on it. If you've ever met someone who's had an out of body experience or has projected before, they are 100% convinced of it. I don't think they are making it up. I do, however, believe there's an scientific answer for it even though we may not understand it fully.

I believe out of body experiences are not truly out of body experiences, but rather brain chemical reactions produced during sleep that causes very real, vivid and concious dreaming in an alter state. I think it's tied in closely with the phenomenon of sleep paralysis. Those who can project at will are able to control this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

I think there are many different levels of sleep paralysis and some experience it very differently than others. I had my first episode of sleep paralysis right before I went on my mission. I had no idea what it was or what happened at the time.

Basically, I went to bed and locked my door with a cabin hook latch I had on the door. I don't remember dreaming at all that night. When I woke up I remember feeling pressure on my covers, like something was on me. As I begin to wake up, I suddenly realized there was something all over my bed. My dresser, which was right next to my bed, had each drawer's content emptied on top of my covers and the drawers were placed on the ground all around my bed. I thought it was a prank by my brother's or my step mom was pissed at me for something (I don't hold anything past her,) but again, my door was locked and there was no way for someone to enter my room.

My family gave me **** for it, but thought it was creepy. I had never slept walked in my life and was convinced I hadn't done it. It was something I didn't like to think about and gave me the creeps. At the time, I was religious and believed in demons and the adversary. Now, I'm convinced it was me and it was my first brush in with sleep paralysis.

My second incident with sleep paralysis was when I got home from my mission. I remember waking up in the morning, but I was completely frozen to my bed and I couldn't move. My bed began to heat up like an oven and began to violently shake. I don't know how long I experienced this for, but it scared me so bad I never told anyone for a year because I thought they would think I'm crazy.

A few years later, I started having sleep paralysis all the time, but nothing any more scary than being awake but not being able to move. I learned about sleep paralysis and was relieved there was a scientific answer for these crazy dreams or experiences I had all the time.

A lot of people who get sleep paralysis experience some crazy ****. Many think someone is sitting on their chest or someone is standing above them or in their room. I think people who think they were possessed by the devil or have been abducted by aliens are just experiencing sleep paralysis. I think people who say they astral project experience the same thing and are convinced because the experience is so unbelievably real.

I've learned how to handle sleep paralysis and have probably experienced it 50 times or so in my life. Sometimes, it much more intense than other times. I've learned not to fight it or try and move - that turns very scary real quick. If I'm by myself, I try and relax and fall back asleep. There is one thing I can physically control during an episode and it is my breathing. I can breathe really quick through my teeth and make a weird noise. I've taught my girlfriend to physically shake me and wake my *** up if she hears me doing this while sleeping which she has, many times now. It still freaks her out. Lol

Even though I know what's going on, it still is scary almost every single time for me. Last year, I had my scariest experience of all during an episode of sleep paralysis while on a business trip to Prescott, AZ. Thinking of it still makes my hair on my neck stand.

Probably too long and too much to share. I'm waiting to board a plane in PHX. Anyone else have experiences with sleep paralysis?

I think I've experienced it once. My brother a number of times. It's usually when not in deep sleep (i.e., afternoon nap).

I was talking about this with my gf the other day. She was asking if I think there's ghosts in NZ. I said I didn't think so, cos it's such a new country, and therefore less spiritual beings. She said she thinks there is because a couple of times while sleeping she couldn't wake up and felt like a guy was sitting on top of her.

Also one of my Christian friends had this happened to him many times and is convinced that it's the devil's doing, and he kept praying for it to go away.

I think lots of people are taking this sort of experience and believing that it's something to do with evil spirits. But why aren't people making the same assertions when they've had a bad dream? Bad dreams (even the worst) are interpreted as not real evil spirit visiting you at night right?

Would be good it if this condition can be scientifically explained or studied so we can know more and feel less paranoia about it.
 
I don't necessarily believe that personal testimony is worthless. I take individual accounts and see what evidence they are based off of then form a conclusion of whether I believe them, don't believe them or wouldn't doubt it one way or another.

In terms of astral projection, spirit guides, the third eye, I have my own theory of belief on it. If you've ever met someone who's had an out of body experience or has projected before, they are 100% convinced of it. I don't think they are making it up. I do, however, believe there's an scientific answer for it even though we may not understand it fully.

I believe out of body experiences are not truly out of body experiences, but rather brain chemical reactions produced during sleep that causes very real, vivid and concious dreaming in an alter state. I think it's tied in closely with the phenomenon of sleep paralysis. Those who can project at will are able to control this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

I think there are many different levels of sleep paralysis and some experience it very differently than others. I had my first episode of sleep paralysis right before I went on my mission. I had no idea what it was or what happened at the time.

Basically, I went to bed and locked my door with a cabin hook latch I had on the door. I don't remember dreaming at all that night. When I woke up I remember feeling pressure on my covers, like something was on me. As I begin to wake up, I suddenly realized there was something all over my bed. My dresser, which was right next to my bed, had each drawer's content emptied on top of my covers and the drawers were placed on the ground all around my bed. I thought it was a prank by my brother's or my step mom was pissed at me for something (I don't hold anything past her,) but again, my door was locked and there was no way for someone to enter my room.

My family gave me **** for it, but thought it was creepy. I had never slept walked in my life and was convinced I hadn't done it. It was something I didn't like to think about and gave me the creeps. At the time, I was religious and believed in demons and the adversary. Now, I'm convinced it was me and it was my first brush in with sleep paralysis.

My second incident with sleep paralysis was when I got home from my mission. I remember waking up in the morning, but I was completely frozen to my bed and I couldn't move. My bed began to heat up like an oven and began to violently shake. I don't know how long I experienced this for, but it scared me so bad I never told anyone for a year because I thought they would think I'm crazy.

A few years later, I started having sleep paralysis all the time, but nothing any more scary than being awake but not being able to move. I learned about sleep paralysis and was relieved there was a scientific answer for these crazy dreams or experiences I had all the time.

A lot of people who get sleep paralysis experience some crazy ****. Many think someone is sitting on their chest or someone is standing above them or in their room. I think people who think they were possessed by the devil or have been abducted by aliens are just experiencing sleep paralysis. I think people who say they astral project experience the same thing and are convinced because the experience is so unbelievably real.

I've learned how to handle sleep paralysis and have probably experienced it 50 times or so in my life. Sometimes, it much more intense than other times. I've learned not to fight it or try and move - that turns very scary real quick. If I'm by myself, I try and relax and fall back asleep. There is one thing I can physically control during an episode and it is my breathing. I can breathe really quick through my teeth and make a weird noise. I've taught my girlfriend to physically shake me and wake my *** up if she hears me doing this while sleeping which she has, many times now. It still freaks her out. Lol

Even though I know what's going on, it still is scary almost every single time for me. Last year, I had my scariest experience of all during an episode of sleep paralysis while on a business trip to Prescott, AZ. Thinking of it still makes my hair on my neck stand.

Probably too long and too much to share. I'm waiting to board a plane in PHX. Anyone else have experiences with sleep paralysis?

Personal testimony by its nature is evidence-free. Otherwise, you can just look at the evidence, making the testimony irrelevant. As for people believing something... hundreds of millions of religious people are 100% sure that their nonsense is totally true. It doesn't mean anything.

I had a friend who used to tell me all about his experiences "astral projecting". He's really embarrassed about that now, and gets annoyed when I bring it up (probably because I'm really annoying tho). Needless to say, he now thinks its mob-mentality and the power of suggestion.
 
Personal testimony by its nature is evidence-free. Otherwise, you can just look at the evidence, making the testimony irrelevant. As for people believing something... hundreds of millions of religious people are 100% sure that their nonsense is totally true. It doesn't mean anything.

I had a friend who used to tell me all about his experiences "astral projecting". He's really embarrassed about that now, and gets annoyed when I bring it up (probably because I'm really annoying tho). Needless to say, he now thinks its mob-mentality and the power of suggestion.
But when doing research there's quantitative and qualitative observation/analysis though right? Are you saying qualitative analysis has no value?
 
From what I understand, we can explain it scientifically and it has been studied.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

I dunno, just skimming through it I see things like:

"Treatment options for sleep paralysis have been poorly studied."

"The pathophysiology of sleep paralysis has not been concretely identified, although there are several theories about its cause."

"Several theories have been proposed to explain the hallucinations that may accompany sleep paralysis, but there is currently no research that supports a neurological model."


.... so I dunno if the subject has been thoroughly studied or understood yet. There's still a lot we don't know scientifically.
 
But when doing research there's quantitative and qualitative observation/analysis though right? Are you saying qualitative analysis has no value?

Personal testimony isn't qualitative evidence. It's just a story. Qualitative evidence is like saying "out of the 50 people we interviewed, 45 said they find dogs cute". Since dog cuteness is not quantifiable, this is a qualitative observation. Your uncle telling you about the time he totally banged Cindy Crawford at a party in college isn't qualitative evidence. It's just your uncle, most likely, making **** up.
 
Personal testimony isn't qualitative evidence. It's just a story. Qualitative evidence is like saying "out of the 50 people we interviewed, 45 said they find dogs cute". Since dog cuteness is not quantifiable, this is a qualitative observation. Your uncle telling you about the time he totally banged Cindy Crawford at a party in college isn't qualitative evidence. It's just your uncle, most likely, making **** up.

But can't you do a study that asks out of 100 people about how many have had an unexplained 'spiritual' experience?
 
But can't you do a study that asks out of 100 people about how many have had an unexplained 'spiritual' experience?

Yes, so asking people if they've ever experienced astral projection gives you an indication of how many people think they've had such experiences. That's all. It doesn't tell you anything about the nature of astral projection, or the validity of the observer's interpretation.
 
Say that a group believes most people find dogs cute because they have the light of the dog-god in their heart. The study I used above does nothing to validate that belief, regardless of whether it confirms that most people, do indeed, find dogs cute.
 
But say someone claims to astral project, then once challenged, they responds by providing verifiable evidence for the claim. For example, they "project" into where the challenger is, and read something the challenger wrote on a piece of paper. There you have it. No trust in any personal testimony is needed. And still, that wouldn't prove ANYTHING the projector believes about the nature or mechanics of the projection. That would similarly require evaluation.
 
Personal testimony by its nature is evidence-free. Otherwise, you can just look at the evidence, making the testimony irrelevant. As for people believing something... hundreds of millions of religious people are 100% sure that their nonsense is totally true. It doesn't mean anything.

I had a friend who used to tell me all about his experiences "astral projecting". He's really embarrassed about that now, and gets annoyed when I bring it up (probably because I'm really annoying tho). Needless to say, he now thinks its mob-mentality and the power of suggestion.

I don't disagree with you at all. Maybe I'm not articulating myself to the degree I'd like. 100% of the time I'm going to believe evidence over testimony. What I'm saying is, all personal testimony has a reason of how and why it's achieved - whether it's based on facts, evidence, agendas, wants, perception, etc. I don't believe in astral projection, but I think (I could be completely wrong here) a lot of those who say they've experienced it, have experienced something in a dream like state. I'm also using my own personal experience and testimony of weird **** that happens in my brain when I'm sleeping to support why I think it's related. I'd be the first to say don't trust me, trust what science says.
 
I don't disagree with you at all. Maybe I'm not articulating myself to the degree I'd like. 100% of the time I'm going to believe evidence over testimony. What I'm saying is, all personal testimony has a reason of how and why it's achieved - whether it's based on facts, evidence, agendas, wants, perception, etc. I don't believe in astral projection, but I think (I could be completely wrong here) a lot of those who say they've experienced it, have experienced something in a dream like state. I'm also using my own personal experience and testimony of weird **** that happens in my brain when I'm sleeping to support why I think it's related. I'd be the first to say don't trust me, trust what science says.

The mind is an amazing thing. I've personally experience lucid dreams. I heard some people can learn to induce such experiences. I believe it. But to believe that someone can travel to places they haven't been or meet other real people in dreams, or whatever... Of course not. Give me real verifiable information, or it's just noise. The equivalent of my email's spam folder. And I never look at that.
 
But say someone claims to astral project, then once challenged, they responds by providing verifiable evidence for the claim. For example, they "project" into where the challenger is, and read something the challenger wrote on a piece of paper. There you have it. No trust in any personal testimony is needed. And still, that wouldn't prove ANYTHING the projector believes about the nature or mechanics of the projection. That would similarly require evaluation.

OK but how does science explain the fact that because physical matter cannot 'create' itself (i.e., a rock cannot create another rock), then where do all the physical matter originally come from?

Maybe the answer cannot be explained by science?
 
OK but how does science explain the fact that because physical matter cannot 'create' itself (i.e., a rock cannot create another rock), then where do all the physical matter originally come from?

Maybe the answer cannot be explained by science?

That's too technical a discussion for me to bother. You simply don't have enough of an understanding of the current state of the art in cosmology. So I don't understand why you feel so confident asking that question. It's not like you studied the various ideas on the origin of reality, and came to the conclusion that some things are unexplainable.
 
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