Looking for genuine discourse re:Jay-Z/NBA

[RobDMB]

If anything, you've revealed yourself as ignorant. Your example for 'simplicity of the musical structure' is hilarious to me. I will explain why, and in turn hope to alleviate your ignorance on this particular subject.

I'll let you do your own reading and research on the origin of Hip-Hop, but the act of rapping over beatboxing or samples/loops isn't for lack of skill to play an instrument but because the artists couldn't afford the instruments so they used their bodies.

Duly noted, thank you for your informative reply. It doesn't change my opinion of rap (as something to listen to), but it does tell me something that I didn't know before.

 

[HighlandHomie]

Let me be clear about one thing: I hold no animosity towards blacks/african americans/whatever-the-PC-terminology-these-days purely by the color of their skin. I associate on a daily basis with people from many different cultural/racial backgrounds and I can call many of them my friends regardless of their affiliations on that level.

If anyone here wants to try and label me somehow, go right ahead, I don't answer to you.

The fact you had to qualify all the reasons you're not consciously prejudice to others with a different background than you reveals plenty about your subconscious (your true you). Sarcastically jabbing at labels (whatever-the-pc-terminology) is also telling. Congrats on being cordial with people from different backgrounds on a daily basis, and that you can call them your friends too. You're a real trailblazer and champion of a united human race.

 

[Archie Moses]

The fact you had to qualify all the reasons you're not consciously prejudice to others with a different background than you reveals plenty about your subconscious (your true you). Sarcastically jabbing at labels (whatever-the-pc-terminology) is also telling. Congrats on being cordial with people from different backgrounds on a daily basis, and that you can call them your friends too. You're a real trailblazer and champion of a united human race.

What's your agenda?

 

[RobDMB]

The fact you had to qualify all the reasons you're not consciously prejudice to others with a different background than you reveals plenty about your subconscious (your true you). Sarcastically jabbing at labels (whatever-the-pc-terminology) is also telling. Congrats on being cordial with people from different backgrounds on a daily basis, and that you can call them your friends too. You're a real trailblazer and champion of a united human race.

Do you seriously have a problem with me explicitly addressing my stance? I wrote 2 sentences, big explanation, right? I must be insecure, right?

Read it how you want, I have no control over your perceptions. Between you and Kicky it's become a discussion about semantics instead of the initial subject matter.

 

[bordelais7]

I'm impressed by the impeccable physical strength and agility that it must require to pat oneself on the back so vigorously while remaining balanced on such a lofty horse. Well done, gentlemen.

 

[HighlandHomie]

What's your agenda?

I don't like BS.

 

[HighlandHomie]

I'm impressed by the impeccable physical strength and agility that it must require to pat oneself on the back so vigorously while remaining balanced on such a lofty horse. Well done, gentlemen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCaWcEZ59cg

 

[Archie Moses]

I don't like BS.

I think you and Kicky are trying to read between the lines when there's nothing there.

 

[moevillini]

Not at all.

His choice, in that context, to use quotes to indicate that something of a different culture than he identifies with was not real or less than was revealing.

Just curious, would you consider spoken word poetry to be music?

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

The very idea that the culture is biased against white people in general, and that racism against whites is really a pressing social issue, is so ill-informed and beyond offensive that I can't take anyone seriously that makes this an issue of real concern.

Nothing worse than white people complaining about "reverse racism". Being white is awesome, stop complaining.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

C'mon, stop putting words in my mouth. Revealed myself as what, exactly? Does musical taste make me a racist or bigot? I simply don't like listening to rap. The sounds, the subject matter, the simplicity of the musical structure (i.e. sampling other musicians because you don't have the skill to play an instrument yourself), etc. How can you assume anything about my heritage based purely on my preference of music? All kinds of "races" produce rap music. How do you know that my exposure to rap is not primarily referring to Russian rap? or any other nation's rap?



Forgive me for questioning your superior moral and intellectual authority, how dare I! /sarcasm

So are you saying that the history of slavery in this country and mistreatment of black people has inherently put a lot of them on a lower socio-economical footing than a lot of white people (I'm not arguing this by the way, I agree with this)? Does a person have to be in a position of power to practice racism? Your version of racism and my version of racism do not seem to be the same thing. I've been operating under the Merriam-Webster definition of racism:



Can you please define your version of racism? You are trying to escalate my original comment to a level of complexity I did not address.

When Jay-Z wears the emblem of a group that believes they are inherently better than white people based on the color of their skin, is that not a form of racism? That is a behavior that encourages further racism, not the ideal that we are equal. THAT is the idea I commented on. I did not explicitly or implicitly say that Jay-Z's necklace makes me feel oppressed or less equal than he.

At the same time, there are a lot of black athletes/entertainers that have much more money, power, and influence than I'll ever have. Does that mean that I could experience racism at their hands? If Jay-Z called me "cracker" in a belittling way just because I'm white, is that not racism?

Your highly contextual version of racism is not what I was referring to in my original post. AND you have assumed a lot about me based on a few posts in an internet message board.

Holy **** lol. Do you even listen to rap music? Sampling and making a good song isn't an easy thing that anyone can do. It takes a lot of musical talent. You are exposing yourself as a dumb-*** and someone who doesn't know anything about music.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Someone revealed them self because they don't like rap? Well, I'm gonna reveal myself then. I don't like country "music," blues "music," and most pop "music." Purely off of my cultural differences too. Smh.

No that he doesn;t like it, but by putting it in quotes, he is questioning if it is even music. I don't like some music, but I don't question if it can even be considered music.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Literally all he was saying is that he didn't think rap was music…and that reveals him as what? Somebody who has good taste in music? Somebody who has bad taste in music? What does it reveal him as?

As a really ignorant person who has little to no understanding of music.

 

[sirkickyass]

Just curious, would you consider spoken word poetry to be music?

This appears to be orthagnol to the topic, but the answer is sure.

At some point you can start thin slicing to the point of "someone just talking" but I'm sure that musical tradition encompasses stylized and/or percussive speaking.

The issue is not what constitutes music. I don't think there is any doubt among anyone reading this board that there is a genre of music called hip hop and/or rap or any number of subgenres thereof. That is not seriously in dispute.

What you see in statements like the one here:

For example, a black rapper that spouts racist slurs all throughout his " music" and then if a white person uses the same words he is offended, angry, and wishes/ threatens revenge.

is a moment in which the very way the sentence is structured reveals a lot about the person writing it. The black speaker "spouts racist slurs" the white person "uses the same words" thus putting the onus for negative behavior on the black person while the well-meaning white man is the one who is merely following along. The mode by which the black person is speaking can't be called a song or music, it has to be qualified as quote music unquote. The only reason to do that is to make the reader aware that what the "rapper" is doing isn't actually artistic expression, but he calls it music and isn't that cute?

That the writer is white and is placing himself in a position to judge that which he is defining as "other" to himself as art or not art, music or not music, worthy or not worthy is, in all honesty, a classic example of white privilege at work. It came so naturally, that he continues to unproblematically assert that it's not music because the people who make it aren't even talented enough to play their own instruments, in full ignorance of how such music is actually created and apparently without any reference to entire acts like the Roots that play on national television virtually every night. I don't even know what to say about it anymore. But he says he's got some black friends so that makes it ok I guess.

 

[Stoked]

Holy **** lol. Do you even listen to rap music? Sampling and making a good song isn't an easy thing that anyone can do. It takes a lot of musical talent. You are exposing yourself as a dumb-*** and someone who doesn't know anything about music.

How DARE he not like rap music and not appreciate it's artistic nature! Clearly he is an idiot.

 

[moevillini]

At some point you can start thin slicing to the point of "someone just talking" but I'm sure that musical tradition encompasses stylized and/or percussive speaking.

The issue is not what constitutes music. I don't think there is any doubt among anyone reading this board that there is a genre of music called hip hop and/or rap or any number of subgenres thereof. That is not seriously in dispute.

What you see in statements like the one here:

For example, a black rapper that spouts racist slurs all throughout his " music" and then if a white person uses the same words he is offended, angry, and wishes/ threatens revenge.

is a moment in which the very way the sentence is structured reveals a lot about the person writing it. The black speaker "spouts racist slurs" the white person "uses the same words" thus putting the onus for negative behavior on the black person while the well-meaning white man is the one who is merely following along. The mode by which the black person is speaking can't be called a song or music, it has to be qualified as quote music unquote. The only reason to do that is to make the reader aware that what the "rapper" is doing isn't actually artistic expression, but he calls it music and isn't that cute?

I think your outrage at the use of quotes around the word music is a bit misplaced, that's all. The entire context of his statement is what is questionable, and arguing the use of quotes around a particular word seems diversionary to the discussion.

 

[One Brow]

I have no idea how One Brow has the patience to be the face of this particular issue. Ten minutes in and all I can think about is how Dave Chapelle and Huey from the Boondocks would be reading this. It's almost unreal.

I let myself get angry when I post. One of the advantages of not being a moderator anymore.

 

[One Brow]

I don't mean it's worse, I never said that. What I meant was that it is a hypocrisy issue. ... I only called it reverse racism to highlight its irony. How can you champion changing a problem in society if you blatantly utilize that problem daily. "Don't be a racist", immediately followed by "Down with whitey" doesn't really mean much, does it? I am not claiming to be an expert, just making an observation.

When they do studies about employment, and white people without criminal records get hired less often than black people with criminal records, then you can complain about racism against whites. When you put out two resumes, one with a traditionally white name and one with a traditionally black name, and the resume with the black name gets five times the number of responses, then you can complain about racism against whites. When white people get stopped by police more often then blacks, arrested more often for the same offense, face stiffer charges for the same offense, get steeper penalties for the same level of offense, and get paroled less often, then you can complain about racism against whites.

Instead, it's the white criminals who are easier to employ than black non-criminals, the white resumes that get responses, and the black people who get the short shrift at every level of the criminal justice system. I don't really care that you got your feelings hurt, whitey. After it happened, you went back to your school where you were treated better by almost every teacher there than a comparable black kid would have been treated, and since then you['ve been treated better by pretty much every person you've worked far. The name-calling was an aberration in your life. In the lives of minorities, the name calling they receive is an additional burden to all the other injustices received on a regular basis, yet one more reminder that they are otherized and don't belong.

You're pretty damn lucky that, as a white person, your biggest issue in race relations is you have to be careful who you call names. Stop whining and grow up.

 

[One Brow]

So what if a white kid gets beaten and left for dead by a few black kids? Is that a racist/hate crime? Or is it just a crime?

Just like any other crime, it depends on the reasons. Do you have some reason to think the police ignore/downplay crimes committed against white people, or prosecutors are reluctant to bring the most serious charges against suspects when the victims are white? Let me reassure you, whitey; white victims get better police response, and their assailants get much stiffer penalties, than happens for black victims.

If a black kid gets beaten and left for dead by a few white kids I'm inclined to say it would be headline racist news.

You mean, like when that black kids car broke down, and he knocked on a couple of doors trying to get help, but the white kids decided he was a threat, so they killed him? You don't think that's racism in play?

I'm trying to be hypothetical here.

It would help if there were more of a relationship between your hypotheses and reality.

What I mean by this is that racism should not be defined solely by the color of the victim's skin. Black, White, Chinese, Russian, it shouldn't matter who the victim is. Racism is not sole property of African Americans.

Racism is defined by the social oppression directed at people because of the color of their skin. I agree that skin color is not the relevant factor in the definition, but it is relevant in any individual application. You have never experienced racism, obviously.

 

[One Brow]

Clearly there is unequal footing. I am more interested in erasing that than I am answering for the crimes perpetrated by others before I was born (for example, slavery).

Edit: But I can certainly understand, not emotionally of course, why some people would want a reckoning and atoneement for that.

Most people advocating for social justice would agree that it is today's and tomorrow's unfairness that needs to be addressed, not yesterday's unfairness except to the degree it play's into today's.