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Looking for genuine discourse re:Jay-Z/NBA

Just like any other crime, it depends on the reasons. Do you have some reason to think the police ignore/downplay crimes committed against white people, or prosecutors are reluctant to bring the most serious charges against suspects when the victims are white? Let me reassure you, whitey; white victims get better police response, and their assailants get much stiffer penalties, than happens for black victims.



You mean, like when that black kids car broke down, and he knocked on a couple of doors trying to get help, but the white kids decided he was a threat, so they killed him? You don't think that's racism in play?



It would help if there were more of a relationship between your hypotheses and reality.



Racism is defined by the social oppression directed at people because of the color of their skin. I agree that skin color is not the relevant factor in the definition, but it is relevant in any individual application. You have never experienced racism, obviously.

Right there you lose me. How would you know? It is an assumption based on him being white. But you know nothing about what he has experienced, where he has lived, his families wealth, or lack there of, or any other relevant factors needed to even begin to discuss wether to make that claim.

I'd tend towards we have all experienced racism in some form or another to one degree or another.
 
C'mon, stop putting words in my mouth. Revealed myself as what, exactly? Does musical taste make me a racist or bigot? I simply don't like listening to rap.

Of course not. Rap is music, and you only like "music".

The sounds, the subject matter, the simplicity of the musical structure (i.e. sampling other musicians because you don't have the skill to play an instrument yourself), etc.

You are an utterly ignorant twit. There are many rap musicians who would put your knowledge of whatever field you call "music" to shame, and their ability to play it would equal/surpass those of the "musicians" you usually listen to.

Forgive me for questioning your superior moral and intellectual authority, how dare I! /sarcasm

You are are completely in the wrong, and have been since your first post in here. Your ignorance makes your sarcasm impotent and ineffectual.

Does a person have to be in a position of power to practice racism?

Yes.

Your version of racism and my version of racism do not seem to be the same thing. I've been operating under the Merriam-Webster definition of racism:

You can't treat people poorly unless you have sufficient social power to be free from repercussions.

I did not explicitly or implicitly say that Jay-Z's necklace makes me feel oppressed or less equal than he.

Nor would you, because for the most part, society has been telling you that you are normal, you are welcome, you are part of the in-group, and the necklace is an aberration in your life.

If Jay-Z called me "cracker" in a belittling way just because I'm white, is that not racism?

Not unless he uses his influence to affect your job or get you arrested.

Your highly contextual version of racism is not what I was referring to in my original post. AND you have assumed a lot about me based on a few posts in an internet message board.

You probably have no idea of the amount of white privilege you radiate in the things you say and the positions you take. No assumptions have been necessary.
 
When they do studies about employment, and white people without criminal records get hired less often than black people with criminal records, then you can complain about racism against whites. When you put out two resumes, one with a traditionally white name and one with a traditionally black name, and the resume with the black name gets five times the number of responses, then you can complain about racism against whites. When white people get stopped by police more often then blacks, arrested more often for the same offense, face stiffer charges for the same offense, get steeper penalties for the same level of offense, and get paroled less often, then you can complain about racism against whites.

Instead, it's the white criminals who are easier to employ than black non-criminals, the white resumes that get responses, and the black people who get the short shrift at every level of the criminal justice system. I don't really care that you got your feelings hurt, whitey. After it happened, you went back to your school where you were treated better by almost every teacher there than a comparable black kid would have been treated, and since then you['ve been treated better by pretty much every person you've worked far. The name-calling was an aberration in your life. In the lives of minorities, the name calling they receive is an additional burden to all the other injustices received on a regular basis, yet one more reminder that they are otherized and don't belong.

You're pretty damn lucky that, as a white person, your biggest issue in race relations is you have to be careful who you call names. Stop whining and grow up.

Standard One Brow. If studies show that the aggregate or averages show that racism is more noticeable or pronounced in one direction, it excuses any racism in the opposite direction. Your response to any example, hypothetical or otherwise, is to proclaim that "blacks have it worse".

I suppose men who are raped have no room to complain, since it happens more often to women. Wait, let me guess, men can't be raped. Your arguments have plenty of merit, but your insistence on absolutism is infuriating, and frankly offensive. Ok, fine, you win the oppression olympics. But don't pretend there weren't other competitors.

You are continually inviting others to examine themselves; I see very little evidence that you have paused to consider the hatred which drives your arguments. "Grow up", indeed.
 
To me, that does not indicate that white rap is good rap, but black rap is bad, he's just saying that rap isn't music.

That was sirkickyass's point, as well. Music identified with another culture doesn't qualify as real music to RobDMB. Nice to see you agree.
 
Let me be clear about one thing:

Let me be clear: every one in hear expected you to say something very close to that, everyone in here probably accepts that you really believe this about yourself.

Nonetheless, even though you work with black people, have black friends, and don't hold any overt animosity: you are a privileged, clueless twit about racism and the myriad ways it affects people. Ignorance of reality is not excuse.
 
Read it how you want, I have no control over your perceptions. Between you and Kicky it's become a discussion about semantics instead of the initial subject matter.

Well, a white has decided the subject matter of this thread; I guess we all need to fall in line, right?

You know, if you stop trying to defend yourself, and just listen, you'll learn a lot more about society and the place you've been given by it. Of course, I'm assuming you actually want to better yourself in this particular area.
 
You can always tell when OB is mad/annoyed, cause he starts to type fast and then types words wrong.

It amuses me.
 
That was sirkickyass's point, as well. Music identified with another culture doesn't qualify as real music to RobDMB. Nice to see you agree.

It is a point that Kicky does not have enough information to adequately defend in my opinion. It singles out 1 single kind of music from another culture. Perhaps Rob would feel that Bushi, Ranchero and Apala is music...
 
How DARE he not like rap music and not appreciate it's artistic nature! Clearly he is an idiot.

I don't like rap music particularly, but I certainly know it's music, that it takes a lot of musical knowledge and talent, and I would never use the scare quotes. You're being deliberately obtuse.
 
I think your outrage at the use of quotes around the word music is a bit misplaced, that's all. The entire context of his statement is what is questionable, and arguing the use of quotes around a particular word seems diversionary to the discussion.

In the context of other points RobDMB has been making, the quotes indicated a particular attitude. You don't see it, fine.
 
I don't like rap music particularly, but I certainly know it's music, that it takes a lot of musical knowledge and talent, and I would never use the scare quotes. You're being deliberately obtuse.

And you are trying to discern something that you cannot because you do not have the adequate info on Rob's musical tastes, history, lifestyle and other needed info. I agree that Rob is wrong and that rap is music. I love some Luda and Eminem. But just becasue he doesn't does not automatically make him a racist. You simply want him to be.

You and Kicky jumped on a very minor tangent and tried to make it this huge deal and it simply isn't. It's not becasue there is not enough info there for it to be anything more than a very minor tangent.
 
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Right there you lose me. How would you know? It is an assumption based on him being white. But you know nothing about what he has experienced, where he has lived, his families wealth, or lack there of, or any other relevant factors needed to even begin to discuss wether to make that claim.

I'd tend towards we have all experienced racism in some form or another to one degree or another.

I agree we all experience racism, but for whites it's such a minute/small/insignificant thing that if you complain about it, i just a lot of respect for you as a person. Hopefully we get to a point where we can say that for all races, but right now we can't. The only negative of being white (and it's not really a negative) is that you can't/shouldn't complain about being white. Makes you sound like a total dumbass.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw_mRaIHb-M

Pretty good/funny video with a lot of truths.
 
Right there you lose me. How would you know? It is an assumption based on him being white. But you know nothing about what he has experienced, where he has lived, his families wealth, or lack there of, or any other relevant factors needed to even begin to discuss wether to make that claim.

I'd tend towards we have all experienced racism in some form or another to one degree or another.

If you have ever been in a situation where the police will assume that the person calling you names is the one who is the victim, and you are the aggressor, you will understand why name-calling is different going in different directions. If you have been in a position where you get called these names by strangers on a daily basis, you will understand why name-calling is different going in different directions. That you and RobDMB seem to have no clue about this is sufficient premise to conclude you have never been victimized by racism.
 
Well, a white has decided the subject matter of this thread; I guess we all need to fall in line, right?

You know, if you stop trying to defend yourself, and just listen, you'll learn a lot more about society and the place you've been given by it. Of course, I'm assuming you actually want to better yourself in this particular area.

If you stopped attacking maybe he could. Reminds me of an earlier topic we discussed...
 
If you have ever been in a situation where the police will assume that the person calling you names is the one who is the victim, and you are the aggressor, you will understand why name-calling is different going in different directions. If you have been in a position where you get called these names by strangers on a daily basis, you will understand why name-calling is different going in different directions. That you and RobDMB seem to have no clue about this is sufficient premise to conclude you have never been victimized by racism.

WRONG!

Never claimed that all acts of racism and that all victims of racism equate. It's even hinted at in the last line of the very post you quote.

Nice attemp though. I'd refer you to a previous Bordy post about you winning the oppression Olympics. It's even hinted at in the last line of the very post you quote.
 
I agree we all experience racism, but for whites it's such a minute/small/insignificant thing that if you complain about it, i just a lot of respect for you as a person. Hopefully we get to a point where we can say that for all races, but right now we can't. The only negative of being white (and it's not really a negative) is that you can't/shouldn't complain about being white. Makes you sound like a total dumbass.

Pretty good/funny video with a lot of truths.

First of all you, personally, can keep your respect as none of it is returned. Second of all at no point was the assertion made that whites suffer the same level of racism, especially in America, that blacks do. Not by me anyways.

But as already stated, by several posters now. One Brow simply wants to act like that since one is worse than the other that the lesser one doesn't matter. Foolish. All racism matters. The degree it matters should of course reflect the severity and depth of the racism in question.
 
Standard One Brow. If studies show that the aggregate or averages show that racism is more noticeable or pronounced in one direction, it excuses any racism in the opposite direction.

The lack of social power means there is no racism in the opposite direction.

Your response to any example, hypothetical or otherwise, is to proclaim that "blacks have it worse".

No, it's "whites have it, period".

I suppose men who are raped have no room to complain, since it happens more often to women. Wait, let me guess, men can't be raped.

Yes, men can be raped. Rape is an type of violence against the non-consenting. Men can also be murdered. However, generally, men can not be victims of sexism.

The use of men who are raped in internet arguments is a curious thing. Feminists want to de-stigmatize rape generally, so that both men and women can be freer to report their rapes; anti-feminists claim that feminists ignore men who are raped as a club to beat back the feminism under the banner of male rights. Fortunately, you're far to sophisticated a poster to use some stupid tactic like that.

You are continually inviting others to examine themselves; I see very little evidence that you have paused to consider the hatred which drives your arguments. "Grow up", indeed.

You have confused anger and hatred. I'm angry at how my family and friends have been treated over the years; I'm angry at the difference between their treatment and mine. I'm angry that people who have benefited from this are also allowed to be ignorant of the difference, and feel they are justified in denying these differences are relevant. However, there's no one to hate, here.
 
If you stopped attacking maybe he could. Reminds me of an earlier topic we discussed...

Do you think sirkickyass was attacking him on pages 1 through 3 (notice I wasn't even here until page 4). Did that make his argument more persuasive to RobDMB? Not that I could tell, certainly.

You can keep tone-trolling, but it will make no difference. I'm not going to hide my anger.
 
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