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Game Thread Oct 25, 2023 07:00PM MT: Jazz vs. Kings

Added to Calendar: 10-25-23

Tremendous Upside said:
The thing that was really obvious in this game was that the Kings dribbled a lot less than the Jazz. They moved the ball decisively and were able to create good shots surprisingly quickly.

For the Jazz, every trip seemed to start with the guards aimlessly pounding the ball for 10 seconds, jab stepping or bumping into well-positioned defenders. That makes for a slow offense and low number of scoring opportunities. The ball just sticks to these guys and that won't change.
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Yeah, the Kings did move the ball well to create a lot of easy shots. The lack of playmaking in our team is obvious.
 
underdog said:
The Kings were pretty hot shooting 3s. They made 10 more three-pointers than we did. That’s 30 points. We lost the game by 16 points. It’s basketball. Hardy has challenges with this team for sure (especially playmaking, and defense as well), but let’s see where we are after 20 games.
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Based on the quality of the looks they got I don't think its "hot" shooting. Uncontested spot up threes will go in a lot for teams with solid shooting.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
The thing that was really obvious in this game was that the Kings dribbled a lot less than the Jazz. They moved the ball decisively and were able to create good shots surprisingly quickly.

For the Jazz, every trip seemed to start with the guards aimlessly pounding the ball for 10 seconds, jab stepping or bumping into well-positioned defenders. That makes for a slow offense and a low number of scoring opportunities. The ball just sticks to these guys and that won't change.
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The Kings are a good team who know each other well. Last night's outcome should have been predictable.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Based on the quality of the looks they got I don't think its "hot" shooting. Uncontested spot up threes will go in a lot for teams with solid shooting.
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On the flip side missing wide open threes will completely mess up confidence and ruin the offense, which is how our game started. But our rotations were so slow and let them get an open three almost at will.
 
It sucks not knowing if the roster has fundamental flaws baked in, or it's really just as obvious as it looks: We have no lead guard and lack playmaking maybe more than any team in the league.

But saying "A Haliburton would completely unlock this team" Well yea, adding an up and coming perennial all star/all NBA guy would certainly improve the roster, that's not breaking news. So who's a guy who gives us the things we need, but isn't some impossible to acquire star? And does this hypothetical player actually unlock this team in a real way? Or just marginally improve things?
 
Ron Mexico said:
On the flip side missing wide open threes will completely mess up confidence and ruin the offense, which is how our game started. But our rotations were so slow and let them get an open three almost at will.
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Yeah and honestly the zone wasn't great even when it was working. It forced a couple turnovers as they adjusted but they also missed a couple good looks. As soon as they hit those two open threes we need to adjust... the zone was busted at that point.

Zones are a knuckleball unless you have rangey active wings. It actually requires more defensive IQ to do it right imo... and we are ummmm lacking there. Once a team gets a read on the knuckleball and hits a few out the park you better bring something else from the bullpen.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
It sucks not knowing if the roster has fundamental flaws baked in, or it's really just as obvious as it looks: We have no lead guard and lack playmaking maybe more than any team in the league.

But saying "A Haliburton would completely unlock this team" Well yea, adding an up and coming perennial all star/all NBA guy would certainly improve the roster, that's not breaking news. So who's a guy who gives us the things we need, but isn't some impossible to acquire star? And does this hypothetical player actually unlock this team in a real way? Or just marginally improve things?
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In Utah stars are grown not acquired. With how the star trades work they don't become available until they have 1-2 years left on their deal and can limit the suitors by saying they won't re-sign. They needed to kind of call Jrue Holiday's bluff (or someone like that). Its why last year's draft was so critical for the core team built around Lauri. Someone we draft next year likely isn't good enough early enough to help us win at the level we want. Its why I wanted to pursue FVV as a stopgap until we get (or grow) they guy.

Hopefully something shakes loose or Key has a meteoric rise.
 
Even like a Tyus Jones or Monte Morris who will keep the trains running on time so Lauri and JC can do damage would be something to consider as a placeholder until Key is ready to be the man.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Based on the quality of the looks they got I don't think its "hot" shooting. Uncontested spot up threes will go in a lot for teams with solid shooting.
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Yeah, we gave them way too many 3-point shots overall, and they took good advantage of it. The hottest shooting teams last night were OKC, Pacers and LAC.
 
Yea Key is the most likely guy for that role. He would have to be an absolute stud. But early returns looking good.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
Yea Key is the most likely guy for that role. He would have to be an absolute stud. But early returns looking good.
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Eventually I think its Key and JC in the starting lineup and we just hold our nose at the defense for now.
 
Ron Mexico said:
On the flip side missing wide open threes will completely mess up confidence and ruin the offense, which is how our game started. But our rotations were so slow and let them get an open three almost at will.
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Yes, and I think we should also give credit to the Kings for moving the ball well to create those easy 3-point shots.
 
iirc and i could be wrong but I think i remember hearing that the kings had the best offense in nba history last season. I think everybody from that offense was back last night and healthy.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Eventually I think its Key and JC in the starting lineup and we just hold our nose at the defense for now.
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Key with JC would make a poor pair defensively, at least now when Key is learning the ropes. I like Key a lot as I think he'll be a good and maybe even a great player for us in the future, but I wouldn't give him a lot of minutes yet if the purpose is to win games. He makes too many mistakes and cannot defend yet. As for Clarkson, there's good chance he'll get traded during the season.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
Yeah and honestly the zone wasn't great even when it was working. It forced a couple turnovers as they adjusted but they also missed a couple good looks. As soon as they hit those two open threes we need to adjust... the zone was busted at that point.

Zones are a knuckleball unless you have rangey active wings. It actually requires more defensive IQ to do it right imo... and we are ummmm lacking there. Once a team gets a read on the knuckleball and hits a few out the park you better bring something else from the bullpen.
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The zone seemed like a disaster to me.
 
fishonjazz said:
The zone seemed like a disaster to me.
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It "worked" for like 3-5 minutes until they busted it. At that point it needed to go back in the bag but maybe Will thought he tweaked it or something.
 
Hardy had some really interesting facial expressions and body language last night. He looked very uncomfortable and annoyed about everything going on.
 
Well, even I have a hard time trying to stay optimistic after a game like that. Kings scored a lot by the power of 3 balls and refs and our zone defense was full of holes, but it was our offense that really horrified me.

Our frontcourt is supposed to be our strength but how can they ever do anything when all our guards except Keyonte constantly force dribble aimlessly into the paint?

Clarkson, THT, Sexton and Dunn were all guilty of if. Clarkson hit some shots late but that doesnt redeem him from contributing to the issue. Sexton and Dunn were bad all game and only reason THT gets any better grade than those two is the 2 early 3s he hit.
 
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