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Oh Good! A War With Iran!

Jazzta said:
Iran is no joke, the Persian have never lost an inch of territory throughout history, forget about a successful ground invasion. Besides that, the US would be fighting a losing war, the global spectrum is changing, and the US external policies are becoming ever less popular in the world. There’s more things to fix at home anyway.

This whole oil tanker thing stinks, takes me back to the “phantom” WMD’s found in Irak.
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The funny thing about the "phantom" WMDs in Iraq is that they weren't phantoms at all. They had used WMDs against their own people. They had known facilities for producing them and had been sanctioned for it in the past. They also refused to allow inspectors in to verify it one way or the other per their previous agreements with the safety council. And the intelligence community at Large believed they still had them since satellite imagery and informants implied that was the case. Turns out they had removed them, possibly very recently.

But everyone acts like bush sat there is his Lair of Ultimate Evil with the ghost of Hitler and the Axis of Evil spitballing ideas.

Bush: "Hey here's one, what if we SAY they have weapons of mass destruction?"

Ghost of Hitler: "oh you devious sonofabitch"

Good ****ing hell there is a difference between being WRONG and LYING you stupid ****ers cannot get through your ****ing thick skulls.
 
LogGrad98 said:
The funny thing about the "phantom" WMDs in Iraq is that they weren't phantoms at all. They had used WMDs against their own people. They had known facilities for producing them and had been sanctioned for it in the past. They also refused to allow inspectors in to verify it one way or the other per their previous agreements with the safety council. And the intelligence community at Large believed they still had them since satellite imagery and informants implied that was the case. Turns out they had removed them, possibly very recently.

But everyone acts like bush sat there is his Lair of Ultimate Evil with the ghost of Hitler and the Axis of Evil spitballing ideas.

Bush: "Hey here's one, what if we SAY they have weapons of mass destruction?"

Ghost of Hitler: "oh you devious sonofabitch"

Good ****ing hell there is a difference between being WRONG and LYING you stupid ****ers cannot get through your ****ing thick skulls.
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No need to be disrespectful, was there any tangible proof of both the production of WMDs and using them against their own people? I can’t honestly remember any. And, what has been the outcome of the invasion? Is Irak all fixed?
 
Jazzta said:
No need to be disrespectful, was there any tangible proof of both the production of WMDs and using them against their own people? I can’t honestly remember any. And, what has been the outcome of the invasion? Is Irak all fixed?
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Chemical weapons are considered a form of WMD. In 1988, late in the Iraq-Iran war, Saddam used chemical weapons against the Kurds in Iraq, killing some 5000 people I believe.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_chemical_attack
 
Jazzta said:
That attack is condemnable without a doubt, but I was referring to the Bush Jr era, and the way Powell presented it to justify a ground invasion.
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OK, I misunderstood your question in that case...
 
Jazzta said:
No need to be disrespectful, was there any tangible proof of both the production of WMDs and using them against their own people? I can’t honestly remember any. And, what has been the outcome of the invasion? Is Irak all fixed?
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I never said the war accomplished it's goals. It just gets beyond ridiculous hearing the revisionist history about it in convenient sound-bites when anyone with a brain that partially functions knows it was more complicated than "bush lied people died". Why did so many Democrats vote to go to war then when they had the same intelligence the republicans did?
 
Red said:
Chemical weapons are considered a form of WMD. In 1988, late in the Iraq-Iran war, Saddam used chemical weapons against the Kurds in Iraq, killing some 5000 people I believe.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_chemical_attack
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This. Also the war was largely justified on intelligence that showed a strong likelihood of Iraq continuing to produce said weapons. But the ultimate justification was refusal to agree with the terms of the UN security council agreements to allow independent investigators into the country, which Iraq continually refused to comply with.

And the use of hyperbole seems to be the only method to get a point across to people who only get their news in 10 second sound bites from CNN or fox news.
 
Bulletproof said:
If they are blowing holes in oil tankers they are acting as an aggressor despite sanctions...

But on that subject, I absolutely and vehemently disagree with your approach.

Sanctions and frozen monetary assets are an attack by us directed at the most vulnerable and most innocent people in Iran. Sanctions are far more cruel than bombings, and bombings are more cruel than a ground invasion. Why, as such a powerful nation, do we strongly prefer the most cruel and most inhumane ways of manipulating our adversaries? Not only that, but they know these tricks. Sanctions has been our go-to for more than 30 years. They know how to play that game. It's not a fun game, but they know how to shift the pain onto the poor, the women and children, and mostly shield themselves from any of it.

Sanctions are the cowards weapons. They aren't more humane. They aren't more civilised. They are the most despicable. They target the weak and the innocent.

We need to end that strategy.
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I can respect your position but there are only so many options if the attack is true and we have to act. What series of choices do you propose other than turning them into an ice skating rink?
 
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DasJazz said:
I can respect your position but there are only so many options of the attackis true and we have to act. What series of choices do you propose other than turning them into an ice skating rink?
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If our hands are tied like that then we make an easy enemy for those who would lead us into folly.
 
Bulletproof said:
If our hands are tied like that then we make an easy enemy for those who would lead us into folly.
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Well hopefully it doesn't come to war but if it does, it's all about the exit strategy. I have no doubt we can cripple them with our military but we can't be sitting in a 20 year war because we haven't figured out a successful way to leave the region.
 
DasJazz said:
Well hopefully it doesn't come to war but if it does, it's all about the exit strategy. I have no doubt we can cripple them with our military but we can't be sitting in a 20 year war because we haven't figured out a successful way to leave the region.
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You talk like there is no war we could ever lose. Like there is no series of events that could ever neutralize our massive arms advantage.

I trust there are military leaders in the U.S. who DO understand the threat, but if they thought like using our military strength was like flipping a switch on and off with no potential for failure we'd be in big trouble.

Our adversaries (Brazil, Russia, India and China) are playing the long game. They are trying to maneuver us into a massive blunder and then strike (not necessarily with military force). Those nations do not have perfectly aligned interests, but they would all like to see a much less influential U.S..

We are not invulnerable.
 
Jazzta said:
From that very same wiki article:

“According to the Geneva Protocol, chemical attacks were banned, but in practice, to prevent an Iranian victory, the United States supported the Iraqi army in their use of chemical weapons.”
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Yep.

It's pretty disgusting how the U.S. has gotten in bed with countries like that simply because they oppose our current enemies.

Another example would be our close relationship with Saudi Arabia.

Another would be how we ignore many of the horrible things Israel does.
 
Lets not act like we haven’t antagonized Iran over the past half century.

We ousted their democratically elected prime minister in 1953 and empowered a horrible dictator. Once the dictator was overthrown in 1979, we offered him sanctuary instead of letting Iran’s new government prosecute him. And then there’s **** like this:

 
Bulletproof said:
You talk like there is no war we could ever lose. Like there is no series of events that could ever neutralize our massive arms advantage.

I trust there are military leaders in the U.S. who DO understand the threat, but if they thought like using our military strength was like flipping a switch on and off with no potential for failure we'd be in big trouble.

Our adversaries (Brazil, Russia, India and China) are playing the long game. They are trying to maneuver us into a massive blunder and then strike (not necessarily with military force). Those nations do not have perfectly aligned interests, but they would all like to see a much less influential U.S..

We are not invulnerable.
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I don't think we are not invulnerable, merely talking about the potential enemy at hand.

The one enemy I would never hope to see on the battlefield is China. They are extremely advanced in military prowess and capability.

Like I said, hopefully all of this is just posturing and won't end up in an armed conflict. The US does not need another war any time soon.
 
War with Iran? Only if we have a draft that starts with the military ages loved ones of those that support it drafted and sent in first.

No more precious American blood for ******** reasons. Stay out of **** till it’s real. Then go in and burn it all down. This isn’t even close to that.
 
LogGrad98 said:
I never said the war accomplished it's goals. It just gets beyond ridiculous hearing the revisionist history about it in convenient sound-bites when anyone with a brain that partially functions knows it was more complicated than "bush lied people died". Why did so many Democrats vote to go to war then when they had the same intelligence the republicans did?
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I didn't even get to vote on whether or not we were going to war. Wtf?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
 
The latest column in TomDispatch is a good read about two Iraqi peace activists....

http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/176574/tomgram:_laura_gottesdiener,_an_american_saddam_hussein_/

"There’s a dark joke going around Baghdad these days. Noof Assi, a 30-year-old Iraqi peace activist and humanitarian worker, told it to me by phone. Our conversation takes place in late May just after the Trump administration has announced that it would add 1,500 additional U.S. troops to its Middle Eastern garrisons.

“Iran wants to fight to get the United States and Saudi Arabia out of Iraq,” she began. “And the United States wants to fight to get Iran out of Iraq.” She paused dramatically. “So how about all of us Iraqis just leave Iraq so they can fight here on their own?”

Assi is among a generation of young Iraqis who lived most of their lives first under the U.S. occupation of their country and then through the disastrous violence it unleashed, including the rise of ISIS, and who are now warily eying Washington’s saber-rattling towards Tehran. They couldn’t be more aware that, should a conflict erupt, Iraqis will almost certainly find themselves once again caught in the devastating middle of it....

...“Years ago, I went to the United States on an exchange program and I discovered people didn’t know anything about us. Someone asked me if I used a camel for transportation,” Assi told me. “So I returned to Iraq and I thought: Damn it! We have to tell the world about us.”

In late May, I spoke with Assi and Mohammed separately by telephone in English about the rising threat of another U.S. war in the Middle East and their collective two decades of peace work aimed at undoing the violence wrought by the last two U.S. wars in their country. Below, I’ve edited and melded the interviews of these two friends so that Americans can hear a couple of voices from Iraq, telling the story of their lives and their commitment to peace in the years after the invasion of their country in 2003..."
 
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