Preference for final roster move for the Jazz (poll)

[LogGrad98]

Butler needs more burn, but it is pretty clear he isn't going to get it. We need a perimeter stopper who can step in against the Anthonys and Manns out there and at least disrupt them somewhat. We have no one who can do that. It is pretty clear we aren't getting that either. So we don't give our promising rookie any time and we aren't concerned in the least about perimeter D. Sounds like the FO/coaching staff is fooling themselves.

 

[Release the Kraken]

Butler needs more burn, but it is pretty clear he isn't going to get it. We need a perimeter stopper who can step in against the Anthonys and Manns out there and at least disrupt them somewhat. We have no one who can do that. It is pretty clear we aren't getting that either. So we don't give our promising rookie any time and we aren't concerned in the least about perimeter D. Sounds like the FO/coaching staff is fooling themselves.

Preaching to the choir......well even if it is a choir of one.

 

[infection]

Butler needs more burn, but it is pretty clear he isn't going to get it. We need a perimeter stopper who can step in against the Anthonys and Manns out there and at least disrupt them somewhat. We have no one who can do that. It is pretty clear we aren't getting that either. So we don't give our promising rookie any time and we aren't concerned in the least about perimeter D. Sounds like the FO/coaching staff is fooling themselves.

As long as the amalgamated numbers look okay we can pretend it’s not a problem.

 

[KqWIN]

Perimeter defense has been an easily identifiable issue for years and like other's I agree we haven't really addressed it. I don't think roster spots 11-14 is really going to make a dent into this issue. To make a real difference I think we need a defensive upgrade in the key rotation pieces. Otherwise we're basically rolling out the same group expecting different results. That doesn't mean we can't win, we were legit title favorites last year deeper into the playoffs, but it's a pretty big hurdle to overcome.

I think this will always be a problem to some degree because we have Mitchell and Conley. Opposing teams are going to go at them in the playoffs and have favorable matchups, so there's only so much a good on ball defender can do. I think more than anything we just need more athleticism, size, toughness ect to cover for those two when Gobert. We'll see how Rudy Gay looks and if he becomes a legitimate option to play big minutes in the playoffs or he's more of a role player who we hope plays better than Niang in the playoffs.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Maybe I'm wrong and he's in perfect shape and ready to play. The more I read about Dunn this summer, the more concerned I got about his health. That situation did not sound good and it wasn't a good sign that there seemed to be no interest around the league for him.

I think all of our younger guys are better bets than Dunn or Aminu. If we really don't believe in one our young guys, I'd actually prefer a random Rayjon Tucker type who we've never heard of or has never gotten a chance.

In hindsight, the defensive guard we should have taken a look at is Gary Payton II. He isn't exactly young and has had a few opportunities in the past, but he finally got the right situation and opportunity to excel in. GSW got another nice rotation player in a similar fashion with JTA. I think you're best off taking a chance on the unproven guys and/or younger players you've been developing for a specific role. Veteran player who's been injured and everyone has given up on would be lower on my priority. I think this is especially the case when you're looking at defensive players who rely on their body and athleticism more.

Payton is one of the many I've mentioned over the years. Guys that get a ton of deflections can have a high impact in short minutes.

I think health is an issue for Dunn but couldn't confirm if he currently has an injury. I don't know why we wouldn't go after a guy like Langston Galloway though. He plays good defense and might be more effective now that they are letting guys get into perimeter guys a bit more... and he's a good shooter. So he can be an offball 3 and D type, but he can also handle the ball if you need him too. He's smallish but its not like its huge guys that light us up... its generally been smaller guards we've struggled with. Mike has been better against these types the last year and a half but we need to lighten his load. If we aren't willing to develop Butler then get a guy like Galloway.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Perimeter defense has been an easily identifiable issue for years and like other's I agree we haven't really addressed it. I don't think roster spots 11-14 is really going to make a dent into this issue. To make a real difference I think we need a defensive upgrade in the key rotation pieces. Otherwise we're basically rolling out the same group expecting different results. That doesn't mean we can't win, we were legit title favorites last year deeper into the playoffs, but it's a pretty big hurdle to overcome.

I think this will always be a problem to some degree because we have Mitchell and Conley. Opposing teams are going to go at them in the playoffs and have favorable matchups, so there's only so much a good on ball defender can do. I think more than anything we just need more athleticism, size, toughness ect to cover for those two when Gobert. We'll see how Rudy Gay looks and if he becomes a legitimate option to play big minutes in the playoffs or he's more of a role player who we hope plays better than Niang in the playoffs.

I think it would need to come at JC or Bogey's expense... and its really hard. I think Gay will help. I think if we have healthy Mike and healthy Donovan that the defense will be a lot better than last year in the playoffs. Donovan has been a lot better on that end (last night not so much).

At some point the pivot might be from JC to a more normal player. The better we get the more his role would be marginalized imo. The issue is any trade has as much chance to make you worse as it does to make you better. Part of the reason I'd like to see Butler more is I think he can become a player you let cook (like JC) but his passing is very good. It was the thing that surprised me most. I know he over dribbles (so does JC) but he has showed he can really set guys up. His shot will start falling... in a 3-4 minute stint it is so hard to shoot well. Think how many games Don gets off to a slow start and is 0-4 in the first few minutes. If we continue the way we have I think its a huge mistake.

 

[KqWIN]

Payton is one of the many I've mentioned over the years. Guys that get a ton of deflections can have a high impact in short minutes.

I think health is an issue for Dunn but couldn't confirm if he currently has an injury. I don't know why we wouldn't go after a guy like Langston Galloway though. He plays good defense and might be more effective now that they are letting guys get into perimeter guys a bit more... and he's a good shooter. So he can be an offball 3 and D type, but he can also handle the ball if you need him too. He's smallish but its not like its huge guys that light us up... its generally been smaller guards we've struggled with. Mike has been better against these types the last year and a half but we need to lighten his load. If we aren't willing to develop Butler then get a guy like Galloway.

Galloway is someone who I'm surprised didn't make a roster. He went to GSW but got cut right at the end...seems like a bad suggestion because GSW had a lot of end of roster casualties (including Paschall). He barely played last year, but he was good in his minutes and was behind good players. The year before he played a lot of minutes for DET and was solid. I don't think he's the same aggressive defender he was when he first entered the league for the Knicks, but he can really shoot it. He's more in the Bjelica or Whiteside group of vets who were out of commission last year but can still play than the Dunn or Aminu types who have an extensive list of injuries.

I've voiced my concerns about blocking Butler. I feel that if we just let Butler play it out and get used to playing with better teammates he'll be better than someone like Galloway in no time....but if we're not doing that might as well get a solid player you can trust. I think it's fine to move on from one of the young bench dwellers for someone you can confidently rely on. Shooting might become an issue with that second unit and I'm confident Galloway can shoot.

My first choice is still Butler and I guess I'd still lean Oni/Hughes over Galloway. I'm not sure if Galloway has much interest right now so maybe you can scoop him up later and give the others a chance. I think Forrest is my least preferred option because as much as I love his defense I don't have hope for his offense.

I think it would need to come at JC or Bogey's expense... and its really hard. I think Gay will help. I think if we have healthy Mike and healthy Donovan that the defense will be a lot better than last year in the playoffs. Donovan has been a lot better on that end (last night not so much).

At some point the pivot might be from JC to a more normal player. The better we get the more his role would be marginalized imo. The issue is any trade has as much chance to make you worse as it does to make you better. Part of the reason I'd like to see Butler more is I think he can become a player you let cook (like JC) but his passing is very good. It was the thing that surprised me most. I know he over dribbles (so does JC) but he has showed he can really set guys up. His shot will start falling... in a 3-4 minute stint it is so hard to shoot well. Think how many games Don gets off to a slow start and is 0-4 in the first few minutes. If we continue the way we have I think its a huge mistake.

Yeah...I think it's got to be JC or Bogey. I think both guys are good players and valuable, but if we really want to attack this defensive issue we've got to give up that luxury for a defensive player. Hard to pick between the two and hard to know what exactly their trade value is.

Our best chance at winning the title could very be to just double and triple down on offense and hope we outshoot teams. But I'm traumatized by what's happened the past couple of years. I'm on the side that we should try to balance the strengths/weaknesses out a little bit more.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Galloway is someone who I'm surprised didn't make a roster. He went to GSW but got cut right at the end...seems like a bad suggestion because GSW had a lot of end of roster casualties (including Paschall). He barely played last year, but he was good in his minutes and was behind good players. The year before he played a lot of minutes for DET and was solid. I don't think he's the same aggressive defender he was when he first entered the league for the Knicks, but he can really shoot it. He's more in the Bjelica or Whiteside group of vets who were out of commission last year but can still play than the Dunn or Aminu types who have an extensive list of injuries.

I've voiced my concerns about blocking Butler. I feel that if we just let Butler play it out and get used to playing with better teammates he'll be better than someone like Galloway in no time....but if we're not doing that might as well get a solid player you can trust. I think it's fine to move on from one of the young bench dwellers for someone you can confidently rely on. Shooting might become an issue with that second unit and I'm confident Galloway can shoot.

My first choice is still Butler and I guess I'd still lean Oni/Hughes over Galloway. I'm not sure if Galloway has much interest right now so maybe you can scoop him up later and give the others a chance. I think Forrest is my least preferred option because as much as I love his defense I don't have hope for his offense.



Yeah...I think it's got to be JC or Bogey. I think both guys are good players and valuable, but if we really want to attack this defensive issue we've got to give up that luxury for a defensive player. Hard to pick between the two and hard to know what exactly their trade value is.

Our best chance at winning the title could very be to just double and triple down on offense and hope we outshoot teams. But I'm traumatized by what's happened the past couple of years. I'm on the side that we should try to balance the strengths/weaknesses out a little bit more.

If you had Galloway and its working I could see him and JB being the answer to replacing JC. I think it comes down to whether or not Quin will play JB. Galloway's defense was good in Detroit as well... I remember always coming away with how hard he was playing even though they sucked.

If you choose between JC and Bogey I think its not really close imo. I think Bogey can be a 30 minute a night guy on a championship team... he can just integrate better with others. I think JC's role gets smaller as you go farther in the playoffs. He's a great innings eater in the regular season and if he comes in smoking hot in the playoffs he can win you a game. If you could flip JC for Smart I think you are as close to a complete team as possible... given the limitations of our stars. The contracts are tough to lineup and JC is a tough guy to see where he'd have interest.

 

[KqWIN]

If you had Galloway and its working I could see him and JB being the answer to replacing JC. I think it comes down to whether or not Quin will play JB. Galloway's defense was good in Detroit as well... I remember always coming away with how hard he was playing even though they sucked.

If you choose between JC and Bogey I think its not really close imo. I think Bogey can be a 30 minute a night guy on a championship team... he can just integrate better with others. I think JC's role gets smaller as you go farther in the playoffs. He's a great innings eater in the regular season and if he comes in smoking hot in the playoffs he can win you a game. If you could flip JC for Smart I think you are as close to a complete team as possible... given the limitations of our stars. The contracts are tough to lineup and JC is a tough guy to see where he'd have interest.

Well you forgot to mention that JC is the coolest player in the league and possibly all time which makes it a much tougher decision. Can't disagree with your on court assessment, however. I agree that JC for Smart gives us the most complete team

One situation that popped up is Collin Sexton's injury. CLE is 7-4 and I bet they would throw a parade if they can keep this going and make the playoffs. They also have Lauri Markannen which was a weird fit to begin with. I think that opens up some more potential 3 way trades because Lauri could be sent to a third team that's in more of rebuilding mode.

Maybe SAS could be a Lauri destination. Derrick White could be someone to keep an eye. The advanced numbers love this guy and I've heard him described as Marcus Smart who isn't a dumbass on offense. I don't have a strong opinion on him, but that would be a similar type of deal.

 

[LogGrad98]

As much as I love JC, I could get behind a JC for Smart swap. Come playoffs the defense and nasty is worth more than the straight offense with not much else.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Well you forgot to mention that JC is the coolest player in the league and possibly all time which makes it a much tougher decision. Can't disagree with your on court assessment, however. I agree that JC for Smart gives us the most complete team

One situation that popped up is Collin Sexton's injury. CLE is 7-4 and I bet they would throw a parade if they can keep this going and make the playoffs. They also have Lauri Markannen which was a weird fit to begin with. I think that opens up some more potential 3 way trades because Lauri could be sent to a third team that's in more of rebuilding mode.

Maybe SAS could be a Lauri destination. Derrick White could be someone to keep an eye. The advanced numbers love this guy and I've heard him described as Marcus Smart who isn't a dumbass on offense. I don't have a strong opinion on him, but that would be a similar type of deal.

That's an interesting thought. White is good... absolutely the type of guy we need. Would do that deal. He's kind of a perfect third guard for us... which makes me sad because we could have had him instead of TB.

I do recognize JC is the best so there is definitely a locker room aspect to this that would be gutting. The deal would have to be good. Not sure there would be a deal as good as the one laid out above but I don't think its crazy. JC would give them some Sexton insurance as well should his price tag get wild this summer.

 

[KqWIN]

That's an interesting thought. White is good... absolutely the type of guy we need. Would do that deal. He's kind of a perfect third guard for us... which makes me sad because we could have had him instead of TB.

I do recognize JC is the best so there is definitely a locker room aspect to this that would be gutting. The deal would have to be good. Not sure there would be a deal as good as the one laid out above but I don't think its crazy. JC would give them some Sexton insurance as well should his price tag get wild this summer.

Why would we draft someone who could play right away and fill a need when we can draft a C who for sure won’t be ready for at least 2-3 years?

This way we can sign a backup C who we definitely won’t have to trade picks to get rid of later. And we definitely won’t end up trading picks to get rid of the prospect C either…..

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Why would we draft someone who could play right away and fill a need when we can draft a C who for sure won’t be ready for at least 2-3 years?

This way we can sign a backup C who we definitely won’t have to trade picks to get rid of later. And we definitely won’t end up trading picks to get rid of the prospect C either…..

But at least the center had no differentiating skill or measurable.

 

[KqWIN]

If this Jaylen Brown for Ben Simmons trade gets done, I think it makes a Smart trade more likely as well.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

If this Jaylen Brown for Ben Simmons trade gets done, I think it makes a Smart trade more likely as well.

That was very clearly a Morey fed rumor to help him artificially try and pump BS' value. Unless they throw in like every pick they can there is no way that deal happens. Ben is either pouting and being an *** or having severe mental health issues... both will depress his trade market.

If Celtics did move Brown it would be in a move for Beal imo... get Tatum his bestie. Brown's value >>>>> Ben Simmons value.

 

[KqWIN]

That was very clearly a Morey fed rumor to help him artificially try and pump BS' value. Unless they throw in like every pick they can there is no way that deal happens. Ben is either pouting and being an *** or having severe mental health issues... both will depress his trade market.

If Celtics did move Brown it would be in a move for Beal imo... get Tatum his bestie. Brown's value >>>>> Ben Simmons value.

I had the same thoughts and still do…but then I saw people actually liking that trade for both teams on Twitter. This whole debacle has not been good for Ben or his value, but it’s easy to forget how much the basketball world values Ben Simmons. He’s a three time all star and made an all NBA team. Way more accomplished than Jaylen.

Can’t say I agree with that evaluation, but there are still people out there that think Ben is one of the better players in the league. I mean…it was just last year that he was getting propagandized into being DPOY.

 

[LogGrad98]

Provided we could make money work, obviously we can't, but if we could, would you trade JC and [filler] for Simmons? How far is Simmons' stock falling? My bet is it ends up pretty low.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I had the same thoughts and still do…but then I saw people actually liking that trade for both teams on Twitter. This whole debacle has not been good for Ben or his value, but it’s easy to forget how much the basketball world values Ben Simmons. He’s a three time all star and made an all NBA team. Way more accomplished than Jaylen.

Can’t say I agree with that evaluation, but there are still people out there that think Ben is one of the better players in the league. I mean…it was just last year that he was getting propagandized into being DPOY.

He's really good but has extreme fit issues on one side of the court. For about 15-18 teams that aren't that great it should not be an issue... he's a great floor raiser. For the teams with the biggest goals the fit is an issue. If I was a GM I'd have worries about his health (lots of back issues) and his competitiveness. Not that he is lazy but he seems to have some mental issues that may limit him.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Provided we could make money work, obviously we can't, but if we could, would you trade JC and [filler] for Simmons? How far is Simmons' stock falling? My bet is it ends up pretty low.

They will end up with a better return than that. I think it ends up being something like CJ McCollum and maybe a small sweetner or something along those lines. Worst case they spin him off to a team like NOP/OKC/Orlando/Minny for some win now role players and a bevy of firsts to use in another deal.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Perimeter defense is over rated in the playoffs. Team defense is far more important than getting one good defender on the perimeter. Every team will just run some screens to get the defender they want on the player they want. We have had decent or good wing defenders over the years and even our current guys have been good at times. Joe was amazing a few years ago against guys in the playoffs. Even last year Bogie was really good against Kawhi. I do think we could use more athleticism but not at the cost of getting a worse player. Better players will help you win more. The team just needs to engage more on that end, but I think we are seeing that this year. JC and Mitchell are much more active on defense and I think that will be more true in the playoffs.

JC is always a guy that worries me though. He gets hot and shoots well for a bit but overall he is a pretty poor shooter and forces it too much. He also doesnt pass and kills the second unit and players like Ingles suffer with him on the court. This is more true in the playoffs, but he also brings something that really helps in a consistent scorer off the bench who isnt shy or passive. I could see us trading him or Bogie if a player we like better comes along.

We might make a fringe roster move but I would be shocked if we moved any piece that was part of our core rotation this year unless this team falls apart. But I dont see us falling apart.