Preference for final roster move for the Jazz (poll)

[LogGrad98]

Perimeter defense is over rated in the playoffs. Team defense is far more important than getting one good defender on the perimeter. Every team will just run some screens to get the defender they want on the player they want. We have had decent or good wing defenders over the years and even our current guys have been good at times. Joe was amazing a few years ago against guys in the playoffs. Even last year Bogie was really good against Kawhi. I do think we could use more athleticism but not at the cost of getting a worse player. Better players will help you win more. The team just needs to engage more on that end, but I think we are seeing that this year. JC and Mitchell are much more active on defense and I think that will be more true in the playoffs.

JC is always a guy that worries me though. He gets hot and shoots well for a bit but overall he is a pretty poor shooter and forces it too much. He also doesnt pass and kills the second unit and players like Ingles suffer with him on the court. This is more true in the playoffs, but he also brings something that really helps in a consistent scorer off the bench who isnt shy or passive. I could see us trading him or Bogie if a player we like better comes along.

We might make a fringe roster move but I would be shocked if we moved any piece that was part of our core rotation this year unless this team falls apart. But I dont see us falling apart.

In a general sense I agree. But it's only overrated if it isn't directly responsible for your exit, multiple years. Otherwise it's a hole that needs to be plugged.

 

[KqWIN]

Here's the article that spooked me on Dunn. I feel bad for the guy, but it doesn't sound good. He had multiple surgeries, was on self described bed rest, and had multiple related injuries to his knee. Not good for a guy who hasn't had a healthy year since his rookie year 5 years ago.

‘It was a roller coaster ride:’ Kris Dunn on battling injuries, making Hawks debut

Struggling through a knee injury in Chicago as the COVID-19 pandemic hit, Kris Dunn was essentially on bed rest for three months, he said.

www.ajc.com

If there's another Caruso or Payton sitting in the G-League I'm down. But I'm not really interested in the vets who rely on athleticism and have had several compounding injuries.

 

[Ron Mexico]

In a general sense I agree. But it's only overrated if it isn't directly responsible for your exit, multiple years. Otherwise it's a hole that needs to be plugged.

I dont think one good defense wing, especially one who isnt a good offensive player would have helped us win either of those series and probably would not have got much if any playing time in those series. To me the main reason we lost the last two years is health and its not close with the next reasons. As far as defensively goes I think it was more of a scheme and effort thing than a lack of one defensive/athletic player. But I could be wrong, maybe if we had kept Exum instead of trading him for JC we would have beat Denver and/or the Clippers, haha.

 

[infection]

I’ll take a different angle on this and state that our biggest problems arise in momentum swings. I’ve argued previously that our clutch rebounding sucks and then the numbers backed that up and it became common narrative. Our meltdowns come in dramatic fashion where we both can’t score and can’t defend. Yes, they happen to all teams. But do all teams drop 3-1 leads when they’re up by 17 or so in the third quarter? Does every team follow that up by being up 2-0 and then totally collapsing? Despite us losing Crowder and Rubio, who we blamed for our lack of outside shooting, we seem to be just as susceptible to those same bizarre shooting funks.

So the idea of a defender is mostly about throwing a stick into the spokes of the opponent’s offense and not letting them get that rhythm. Yeah, you can kill that rhythm by hitting your own shots, but those shots may not always fall, and we likely will have stretches of 2-20 for whatever reason, but good defense can consistently be played the whole time, while generating good looks is still dependent on those shots falling (and I believe our collective psychology will get the best of us when we get nervous and tighten up). We need the equivalent of throwing a flash bang to disorient the opponent and then scramble to make something of that. A flash bang isn’t your main strategy, but it’s an important tool you can utilize when things aren’t working to plan and you need to **** some stuff up to buy you time, or allow yourself a different roll of the dice in the chaos.

 

[KqWIN]

I’ll take a different angle on this and state that our biggest problems arise in momentum swings. I’ve argued previously that our clutch rebounding sucks and then the numbers backed that up and it became common narrative. Our meltdowns come in dramatic fashion where we both can’t score and can’t defend. Yes, they happen to all teams. But do all teams drop 3-1 leads when they’re up by 17 or so in the third quarter? Does every team follow that up by being up 2-0 and then totally collapsing? Despite us losing Crowder and Rubio, who we blamed for our lack of outside shooting, we seem to be just as susceptible to those same bizarre shooting funks.

So the idea of a defender is mostly about throwing a stick into the spokes of the opponent’s offense and not letting them get that rhythm. Yeah, you can kill that rhythm by hitting your own shots, but those shots may not always fall, and we likely will have stretches of 2-20 for whatever reason, but good defense can consistently be played the whole time, while generating good looks is still dependent on those shots falling (and I believe our collective psychology will get the best of us when we get nervous and tighten up). We need the equivalent of throwing a flash bang to disorient the opponent and then scramble to make something of that. A flash bang isn’t your main strategy, but it’s an important tool you can utilize when things aren’t working to plan and you need to **** some stuff up to buy you time, or allow yourself a different roll of the dice in the chaos.

Eh...I look at things a lot differently. Every team does go through their ups and downs, especially when it comes to shooting. But "ups and downs" is a lot different depending on the team. The Rubio/Crowder teams had those cold more often and for extended durations. They didn't have the big lead to blow in the first place because they were far less capable of having a hot streak of their own. In the two HOU series, the Jazz had a 101.5 offensive rating and shot 30.41% from 3. Against DEN and LAC they had a 120.9 offensive rating and shot 41.9% from 3. I don't see commonality in how we lost those series. Very different teams, very different problems. And when looking at the talent makeup of those rosters, their ultimate downfalls shouldn't have been that much of a surprise. This current team is way less susceptible to cold shooting streaks. OTOH, it is way more likely to get exposed on the defensive end. While momentum swings do happen, the problem is that we can't defend. The large momentum swings are symptoms of that weakness.

The problem with the flashbang analogy is that you're just as likely to flashbang yourself. If you sub out one of your better players for a better defender, there's no guarantee that it works. Subbing in the defender might be the thing that keeps the drought going and the player you just subbed out might have been the one to get you back in the game. I think this theory sounds great with the benefit of hindsight. When we go on a an extended drought it's easy to say we should have subbed in someone else that might have changed the game. But you don't that benefit when the decisions are made. When the other team goes on a 6-0 run and a timeout is called, you don't know if it's going to turn into 12-0 or you're going to hit them back with a run yourself. You're making a decision on the fly and if you play that scenario out a 100 times, the better player is going to give better results more often than the flashbang.

Don't get me wrong...Putting in a completely different player can change the game and opposing teams might take some time to adjust...But I don't think that's what really decides a playoff series. The key players are the ones who decide the series, and if your key guys can't matchup against their key guys you're doomed. Getting a defender for me isn't about making that perfectly timed chess move that throws off opposing team. It's about changing the talent distribution of our key players because your key players are ultimately going to decide your fate. Getting Conley, Clarkson, and Bogdanovic instead of Rubio and Crowder really changed the outlook of this team on both ends. That's how you make sustainable change, it has to come from your key players. Now we can score on anyone, but we also have giant holes that can be exploited on defense that weren't there before.

We need more than a guy who can help us in a pinch. That would be akin to hoping that Korver could have saved our offensive woes. We need a guy who can be a defensive upgrade and reasonably play 30+ minutes in the playoffs. Someone that helps us because he's that quality of player and not because he surprised the other team for a few minutes. As long as our main guys cannot matchup with their main guys we're going to have a problem. Maybe we win the shootout, but I think this team has enough weapons that we can afford to seek out that quality defensive first player.

 

[LogGrad98]

I dont think one good defense wing, especially one who isnt a good offensive player would have helped us win either of those series and probably would not have got much if any playing time in those series. To me the main reason we lost the last two years is health and its not close with the next reasons. As far as defensively goes I think it was more of a scheme and effort thing than a lack of one defensive/athletic player. But I could be wrong, maybe if we had kept Exum instead of trading him for JC we would have beat Denver and/or the Clippers, haha.

No, not a fringe guy that might could play a little defense for us. We should have plugged that hole instead of brought in Conley, for example. Or this last summer made a trade of some sort to plug that hole along with replacing offense as needed. It's possible this year they tried and just couldn't get anything done so they settled for bringing in an injured Rudy Gay and hoping for someone to step up. But this has been a known issue for years, not just recently, and we haven't done much to address it at all. I guess the FO either couldn't get it done or don't see it as an issue, but everyone from pundits to fans see the problem. I just wish they had made it a priority. I'm hoping we can 1) stay healthy, which isn't likely with Conley's recent health record, and maybe not with Donovan's either and 2) if healthy show that all the hubbub around perimeter D was just that, hubbub. But as a wise man once said, hope is not a plan.

 

[Ron Mexico]

No, not a fringe guy that might could play a little defense for us. We should have plugged that hole instead of brought in Conley, for example. Or this last summer made a trade of some sort to plug that hole along with replacing offense as needed. It's possible this year they tried and just couldn't get anything done so they settled for bringing in an injured Rudy Gay and hoping for someone to step up. But this has been a known issue for years, not just recently, and we haven't done much to address it at all. I guess the FO either couldn't get it done or don't see it as an issue, but everyone from pundits to fans see the problem. I just wish they had made it a priority. I'm hoping we can 1) stay healthy, which isn't likely with Conley's recent health record, and maybe not with Donovan's either and 2) if healthy show that all the hubbub around perimeter D was just that, hubbub. But as a wise man once said, hope is not a plan.

I wasn't a fan of the trade for Conley. I thought we should have gone a different route. But when healthy he has proven to be a huge piece for us and probably a good move. Unfortunately he hasn't been healthy for the playoffs, that's not something you can predict. I hope that changes this year, but who knows. Any player could be hurt at any time.

As far as other major trades I don't know what we could have done, but I'm all for trading anyone on the team if it improves us. Our starting roster already has 2 guys that are pretty much just defenders as their main duty. I don't think a third would improve us unless it's not a drop off in offense. But I can't imagine any high level 2 way player that would be attainable for the assets we have.