Re-Tool Younger Trade Idea

[radiohegel]

Marc Gasol got dumped by Memphis and won't get a big deal again.
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This is a really silly comparison to bring in... it really doesn’t make the point you think it does.

A) Marc Gasol is going on 36, not his early 30s.
B) Despite A, he was a key piece to winning Toronto a ****ing championship.
C) Dude was a literal all star at 32, and still at that level in years following.

If you’re going to take anything from looking at Gasol, it should definitely point towards being fine with Rudy getting a max.

Rudy is firmly within his prime, it’s not like he’s clinging onto the tail end of it hoping for one last substantial contract... the obsession with age to the point of not wanting to give multi year max deals to dudes in their late 20s is neurotic as hell. That’s exactly when you should *want* to sign guys.

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

Rudy is one dimensional on defense. He can shut down an area of the court but can't shut down an individual player or defend perimeter players.

Rudy is one dimensional on offense. He can set amazing screens that lead to him finishing lobs. He can't create offense, dribble, post up, etc.

He is at his prime. When he regresses, we will grow to despise Rudy if he makes too much. It happened with AK. It happened with Ostertag. It will happen Jingles next year. Thats why we can't pay Rudy too much. I hate when people hate our legends.

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He’s not one dimensional for hell sakes!!

 

[jom2003]

if Rudy was a one dimensional defender our defense would have collapsed within the first 5 games leading up to a 20 win season.

Rudy is amongst all-time-greats in terms of switch/help defense but only above average in terms of one on one defense.

 

[The Jazz Wonderbra]

TRADE IDEA

Utah gets 2020 #15 pick from Orlando, Aaron Gordon and Evan Fournier

Philly gets Mike Conley

Orlando gets #23 utah pick, #21 philly pick and Tobias Harris

Thoughts?


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Would you trade a perennial all star in his prime and a serviceable starter / 3rd scoring option PLUS downgrade your draft pick for Tobias Harris who used to play for your team but left on his own free will?

Orlando doesn't do it.

Perhaps if they kept the #15 AND got the #23. Then they give up 2 assets for 2 assets and flexibility.

Would Philly really offer the versatile, valuable Tobias Harris for Mike Conley?

It makes fantastic sense for the jazz, but not for orlando or Philly.

Why not just offer Mike Conley for Tobias straight up? If its a play to dump his contract then thats the motivation and there is no need to involve orlando.

If orlando wants to shed gordon (which i doubt) then offer mike conley for him and aminu (salary dump) straight up.

 

[LoPo]

You all make good points. In many ways, I'm wrong. I'm just so incredibly undecided on what to do with this roster.

Maybe it's not Rudy. Maybe its just that I have no faith in the center position. I dont see titles being won by teams led by overpaid centers.

I don't see a title run in the next couple years due to poor roster decisions. I think giving Rudy anything near a supermax is a worse idea than trading him to build a long term future around Don.



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[Ron Mexico]

You all make good points. In many ways, I'm wrong. I'm just so incredibly undecided on what to do with this roster.

Maybe it's not Rudy. Maybe its just that I have no faith in the center position. I dont see titles being won by teams led by overpaid centers.

I don't see a title run in the next couple years due to poor roster decisions. I think giving Rudy anything near a supermax is a worse idea than trading him to build a long term future around Don.



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Building around what other teams are doing and their success is setting up to fail. Just because other teams aren't building around a Gobert player doesn't mean we can't win with him. No one else is like him.

Golden State did things very different and it turned out okay. Build around youre strengths.

If we had a biggest FA since boozer/Okur than we probably win against the team pushing LAC to game 7. His injury combined with missing at Green and Davis was our biggest problem. Fix those and we are a contender this year.

How many teams are missing their second leading scorer and do well on the playoffs? Add that to 2 FAs expected to be in the rotation rush played 0 minutes. That makes a huge difference.

The jazz need to rectify those things. Secondly they should move Conley if they can get good value. That's it. I'd Rudy doesn't want to be here or Mitchell doesn't want to play with him then we have another issue to deal with. I have no idea about that.

 

[That1UtahFan]

It just feels like this roster is in purgatory. Haven't been impressed by Zanik/DL roster building in recent years.

Age of the roster isn't the biggest issue IMO it's more to the fact that the players on the roster just doesn't lineup with that of a title contender. When the team lost Favs you know the interior defense was going to be weaker which is fine that's why you have a DPOY player in Gobert to cover the paint. What needed to happen was to get more athleticism and size on the wings instead they went out and got Conley and Bogey which each of those players alone wouldn't have been a bad addition but to get both and putting them both in the starting lineup you could just tell the defense wasn't going to be there based on the roster makeup.

Only way we should trade Gobert is if one of a few things happen.
A. He won't accept anything less than the super max. (most likely of the 3 scenarios.)
B. A team comes along and gives up a haul near what OKC got for PG.
or C. Don and Rudy just simply can't work together anymore. (Based on how they were playing together in the playoffs, I don't see this as being that big of an issue as it was maybe few months ago.)

I 100% believe this team can build with both Don and Rudy on the roster but it's going take some roster shake up and major internal improvement. Moving Conley would be priority number 1 for me. His fit in the roster combined with his contract just aren't what the team needs.

 

[LoPo]

Building around what other teams are doing and their success is setting up to fail. Just because other teams aren't building around a Gobert player doesn't mean we can't win with him. No one else is like him.

Golden State did things very different and it turned out okay. Build around youre strengths.

If we had a biggest FA since boozer/Okur than we probably win against the team pushing LAC to game 7. His injury combined with missing at Green and Davis was our biggest problem. Fix those and we are a contender this year.

How many teams are missing their second leading scorer and do well on the playoffs? Add that to 2 FAs expected to be in the rotation rush played 0 minutes. That makes a huge difference.

The jazz need to rectify those things. Secondly they should move Conley if they can get good value. That's it. I'd Rudy doesn't want to be here or Mitchell doesn't want to play with him then we have another issue to deal with. I have no idea about that.

This is a very good post. Many good points.

I don't agree with the GS comparison because they had 3 elite defenders (Klay, Iggy, Green) along with 2 elite shooters (Steph and Klay), but I get what you are saying. Maybe we can do it a way that hasn't been done since Iverson/Mutombo. They didn't win a title, but you get my drift.

I hope Rudy is willing to accept a deal that allows us to keep him AND have enough to build around Don and him. We have to get a couple more perimeter defenders. And Favors would be nice.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Watching the raps and Celtics series kinda made me think you really need multiple active wings to have a competent playoff defense... that series was fun to watch even though the offense was a little ugly. I wonder if you can build that with Rudy... then the other part of me thinks what if you found a couple of those guys and added it to Rudy?


It’s so hard to be a contender... seeing the clips struggle with Denver has given me a little pause on declaring this iteration as a lost cause.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

I do think the more I think about it... that if we have to pick one or the other... I'd rather dedicate our cap resources towards the wing than at backup 5. I think we have to adjust our defensive philosophy a bit and if Rudy isn't in they need to switch more and do less "funneling". Guys need more defensive "integrity" and need to be able to stay in front of guys.

I think Morgan can hang as a switchy backup 5. Would allow us to have more variation.

 

[Jose Mayonnaise]

I do think the more I think about it... that if we have to pick one or the other... I'd rather dedicate our cap resources towards the wing than at backup 5. I think we have to adjust our defensive philosophy a bit and if Rudy isn't in they need to switch more and do less "funneling". Guys need more defensive "integrity" and need to be able to stay in front of guys.

I think Morgan can hang as a switchy backup 5. Would allow us to have more variation.

Agreed. Look at the primary bigs for Boston and Miami. Theis and Adebayo. All of 6'08 and 6'09. They are skilled, protect the paint and finish in the paint. Ideally Juwan can become a serviceable version of that.

 

[jom2003]

Watching the raps and Celtics series kinda made me think you really need multiple active wings to have a competent playoff defense... that series was fun to watch even though the offense was a little ugly. I wonder if you can build that with Rudy... then the other part of me thinks what if you found a couple of those guys and added it to Rudy?


It’s so hard to be a contender... seeing the clips struggle with Denver has given me a little pause on declaring this iteration as a lost cause.

you can have multiple wings with rudy. he'd excel in a big lineup. it was DL's conscious decision to use up all the resources at hand to stash guards instead