Rookie Coach vs. Rookie Coach: How did they stack up?

[NUMBERICA]

Hmm.

I can't say I'm worried. But then again, I haven't watched any games.

 

[stitches]

Quin's record:

1. Lets Carmelo brutalize Hayward all night long. Why no switches? No wonder the Jazz have the worst defense in the league.

That's actually not true. At different times Carmelo was guarded by Hayward, Booker, Ingles and Burks.

2. Cannot draw up an inbound play to get the ball to anyone besides the worst free throw shooter on the floor.

3. Cannot draw up a play to get off a decent shot with a full 2.3 seconds. Jazz get lucky with a wild shot.

Getting inbound pass to a capable shooter is not always as easy as it seems, especially when the opponent sags off of the one that they want to get the ball in order to help covering the other 4. In general you get a situation where 5 defenders try to deny a pass to 3 players and are perfectly happy with giving the 4th one the opportunity to get the ball and foul him. Also, you have no idea what kind of play he draws and if the problem is with the plays themselves(problem with the coach) or with the execution of the plays(problem with the players)... or simply because of great defensive effort by the opponent.

Also... wow! Decent shot with 2.3 seconds? Pretty much what you rely on in 2.3 seconds is that the opponent will screw up a defensive assignment or a switch. If that doesn't happen you are not getting an open shot. EVER!!! Any shot that you get facing the rim is a decent shot with 2.3 seconds remaining.

4. Continues to play Chucker A. Biles over Dante Exum, the number 1 rookie of the year according to ESPN.

Chucker won us the game and have been playing relatively well in the last couple of games. Exum has been struggling on the road and is not ready to start. He gets abused every game on screens and has not been great initiating the offense. He's been deferring a lot, he's been giving up his dribble a lot. People around know that I am probably one of Dante's greatest fans, but he still looks like a kid among men in huge portions of the games. Until his body catches up with his skill and talent, I would have no problem with Dante coming off the bench as a sub.

What I haven't liked from Quin is him taking out players with 2 fouls in the second quarter - this one I definitely think is a mistake that has already possibly cost us one or two wins.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

Quinn is great but he's still figuring some things out. With most one on one guys it is sometimes better to let them go one on one and have everyone else watch... Sloan used it and guys would have big nights in losses.

Carmelo though... Dude doesn't pass... Thought we should have mixed in a double team here and there, but it's tough to argue with results.

If you can't see the progress under Quinn's leadership then you are blind.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Quinn is great but he's still figuring some things out. With most one on one guys it is sometimes better to let them go one on one and have everyone else watch... Sloan used it and guys would have big nights in losses.

Carmelo though... Dude doesn't pass... Thought we should have mixed in a double team here and there, but it's tough to argue with results.

If you can't see the progress under Quinn's leadership then you are blind.

In Melo's defense, his teammates are awful.

 

[Handlogten's Heros]

In Melo's defense, his teammates are awful.

Cut to a shot of Cole Aldrich with his head down.

 

[ONE LOVE]

I wonder what Snyder could have done with Lucas, Tinsley and Garrett as the PG's. A big part of the improvement is due to personnel, including having better players and having existing ones step up from last season (Hayward & Favors especially).

But yes, I do like the improvements Quin has made to the offensive system.

But this year so far Burke has been terrible to start the year off too, and can't say Exum has been instrumental to our wins. Also don't forget we had Marvin Williams & Richard Jefferson last year, we don't have that kind of vet experience/depth this year.

 

[freakazoid]

I have this sick feeling in my stomach, that when all is said and done, he may prove to be only human like the rest of us. Might be time to look for a replacement.

 

[candrew]

And the games - except for Dallas - have been fun to watch. Jazz are competing every night. I don't think that was the case last year.

At this time last year The Jazz just lost their third consecutive game by 20+ points.

 

[Deleted member 848]

lol @ dal negging me for not crediting Trey's miracle.

I pos-repped you, said "consider this a neg" (cuz u like you too much to neg), and I negged you for the trolling-- NOT for saying that you didn't credit Trey's miracle.

wtf dude.


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[zman1527]

Quin in not a rookie head coach, he has been a head coach in college and in NBADL I believe. Fish has not even been an assistant coach. Big differences. Personally, if it was my decision I would never hire anyone to be a hc who not been a hc at some level. You want to be a hc at the highest level? Start at a lower level and learn your craft.

 

[franklin]

Are we ever successful when Hayward lets the clock run down to 7 seconds and then tries to go 1-on-1?

As for not helping on star players, perhaps Quin is either a) teaching the team to walk before they can run by just concentrating right now on basic defense and switching or b) following that old philosophy that star players will always get their points, but don't let the other players beat you.

I though Hayward actually played very good defense on 'Melo. He made some great shots, though.

That's actually not true. At different times Carmelo was guarded by Hayward, Booker, Ingles and Burks.

Getting inbound pass to a capable shooter is not always as easy as it seems, especially when the opponent sags off of the one that they want to get the ball in order to help covering the other 4. In general you get a situation where 5 defenders try to deny a pass to 3 players and are perfectly happy with giving the 4th one the opportunity to get the ball and foul him. Also, you have no idea what kind of play he draws and if the problem is with the plays themselves(problem with the coach) or with the execution of the plays(problem with the players)... or simply because of great defensive effort by the opponent.

Also... wow! Decent shot with 2.3 seconds? Pretty much what you rely on in 2.3 seconds is that the opponent will screw up a defensive assignment or a switch. If that doesn't happen you are not getting an open shot. EVER!!! Any shot that you get facing the rim is a decent shot with 2.3 seconds remaining.

Chucker won us the game and have been playing relatively well in the last couple of games. Exum has been struggling on the road and is not ready to start. He gets abused every game on screens and has not been great initiating the offense. He's been deferring a lot, he's been giving up his dribble a lot. People around know that I am probably one of Dante's greatest fans, but he still looks like a kid among men in huge portions of the games. Until his body catches up with his skill and talent, I would have no problem with Dante coming off the bench as a sub.

What I haven't liked from Quin is him taking out players with 2 fouls in the second quarter - this one I definitely think is a mistake that has already possibly cost us one or two wins.

These excuses for poor coaching aren't even clever spins, unless you count your heads stuffed up Quin's *** and him spinning on them.

 

[franklin]

I pos-repped you, said "consider this a neg" (cuz u like you too much to neg), and I negged you for the trolling-- NOT for saying that you didn't credit Trey's miracle.

wtf dude.


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Get off your high horse. Every post of yours is a Trey troll job.

 

[Zulu]

The main thing I'm worried with is the inbound plays...

 

[Zulu]

And burks has played well this year not fantastic, but he isn't chucking the ball, his One on one defense has been solid, he has been making beautiful passes and is nearly perfect from the free throw line!

 

[Deleted member 848]

Get off your high horse. Every post of yours is a Trey troll job.

Even if this was true (it isn't) I'm not quite sure how my trolling justifies yours.

Me saying "hey Frank, you're trolling" isn't negated by saying "well guess what Dalamon-- you do too!!".

It's tiresome. Most respected posters felt that Ty Corbin was mediocre. He wasn't bad, but he wasn't great either. The offensive system that he installed last season seems to pale in comparison to this one, in terms if how it fits our players. Our defense from last season was incoherent all season long-- we are not doing well defensively this year, but Quin has time to prove himself. His player development was good. These are all statements that have been said many times-- yet you feel the need to beat this dead horse until kingdom come for the sake of who, 3 #FireTy trolls?

It's ****ing pathetic that we're still talking about Ty Corbin.

My Burke trolling certainly exists. It certainly flared up after he hit a game-winner. But to suggest that it's 100% what I post is disingenuous, incorrect, intellectually-dishonest and offensive.


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[Saint Cy of JFC]

And burks has played well this year not fantastic, but he isn't chucking the ball, his One on one defense has been solid, he has been making beautiful passes and is nearly perfect from the free throw line!

Look at Burks shooting in the 2nd and 4th quarters...... god awful. He might be a huge reason for our struggles in the 2nd quarter.

Burks shoots 31% in the 2nd and 23% in the 4th.

 

[ema]

I'm going to do exactly what I did with Corbin, about Quin.

I will be patient with him for at least 2 years which in this season he gets a complete green card for everything from me. Even for the most basic and stupid coaching mistakes. Next year I would speak my more general concerns with him and with the third year I would criticize him ruthlessly if he really turns out to be alike to Corbin.

 

[fishonjazz]

Look at Burks shooting in the 2nd and 4th quarters...... god awful. He might be a huge reason for our struggles in the 2nd quarter.

Burks shoots 31% in the 2nd and 23% in the 4th.

Ouch. But at least i bet he doesn't take many shots in those quarters...... hell he doesn't take many shots per game in general

So yes, those numbers are horrible but at least he is not being a high volume chucker like alot of people thought he would be.

 

[franklin]

It's tiresome. Most respected posters felt that Ty Corbin was mediocre. He wasn't bad, but he wasn't great either. The offensive system that he installed last season seems to pale in comparison to this one, in terms if how it fits our players. Our defense from last season was incoherent all season long-- we are not doing well defensively this year, but Quin has time to prove himself. His player development was good. These are all statements that have been said many times--

Bandwagon fallacy. There aren't any professionals here anyway and all our opinions are pretty much worthless bull ****. Claiming that you're right because a bunch of armchair commenters agree with you is pretty lame.

yet you feel the need to beat this dead horse until kingdom come for the sake of who, 3 #FireTy trolls?

I suppose I should create 10,000 Fire Trey threads a day like your alt HighlandHarris. My god that alt is obnoxious. Would you let that cancer die already?

It's ****ing pathetic that we're still talking about Ty Corbin.

You're the only one talking Corbin in this thread. Good job derailing it feeling like a victim of my trolling.

You're an idiot if you think the offense looks good this year. It's trash. The only thing that's held it together is Hayward putting up HOFer efficiency, and shooting double his career mid-range percentage. The defense is awful, and last night's coaching was pathetic. All that with an extra year of player development to work upon but Quin hasn't been able to do much with it and a team built without holes.

 

[Batman]

I have not been impressed by Quinn. This game shouldn't have been as close as it was if it were better coaching imo. And he was always playing Exum with either sh*t lineups, played him as a SG, or had Burks/Hayward play PG instead. I'm pretty sure this game didn't develop Dante at all. It probably just solidified in Dante's mind that he needs to become a better shooter before he can have any real impact when put in these types of situations.

I think we all need to relax. Quin knows more about Basketball than you and I combined times at least 10ish