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ROY of the year Race

Ron Mexico

Ron Mexico

Well-Known Member
Contributor
I wanted to respond to someone in a Mitchell thread but I didnt want to sully it with Simmons name anymore.

Plus Simmons name does not belong in the Jazz forum so I thought I would move any discussion comparing these two ROY candidates here.

Both are great players and the race seems very close. Simmons still has the lead due to East coast bias and him having a lot of attention early in the season along with being the #1 pick. But Mitchell's elite level play as a rookie has closed the Gap. Opinions of people in the Media and players seem pretty split. There is a lot of noise about sharing it.

Who do you got and why?

@utahjazzz Here is a place for your opinions.
 
Here is the post I wanted to respond to.

spycam1 said:
I wonder if Simmons will make 175 threes in his whole career...

Sent from my SM-G930P using JazzFanz mobile app
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The race is on between the two of them. Mitchell is at 175 3 pointers made. Simmons is at 177 free throws made this season. Who ends up with more? Simmons has attempted about 50 more fts this season than Mitchell but made 40 less.

Simmons is officially the worst rookie Guard at free throws in NBA history. No guard has ever attempted any where near that number of attempts and shot that bad of a percentage. Only 4 other players in NBA history have done as bad as rookies but they were all playing C/PF.


On a side note everyone claims Simmons is waaayyy better on defense than Mitchell and I was just comparing their stats on NBA.com for defensive stats and they are almost identical. Although I do think Simmons is a slightly better defender due to his length. Plus I think Gobert is a little bit better defender than Embiid which influences these numbers.

Mitchell Def Win Shares = .054 and Defensive rating = 101.5
Simmons Def Win Shares = .056 and Defensive rating = 101.3
http://stats.nba.com/players/defense/?sort=DEF_WS&dir=-1
 
If I am being honest I think that the ROY award will be split between them or Simmons will win it.

But I think that Mitchell deserves it or at minimum split it due to how well both have done.

I think the NBA needs to get rid of the 2nd year rookie thing but that does not matter for this conversation since that is the rule. People complained about it other years but its never been super close between a 1st year guy and a 2nd year guy for it to matter this much.
 
I probably lean Simmons, but it's very close and both are incredible for rookie guards. In the time I've been closely following pro ball I think CP3 is the only rookie guard I've seen better.
 
I'd put my money on a split ROY award

Good PR, makes sense, still not sure if Simmons rookie card is the 2016-17 or the 2017-18 ;)
 
Ron Mexico said:
Simmons still has the lead due to East coast bias and him having a lot of attention early in the season along with being the #1 pick.
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I hate this ****. Where is the evidence? Simmons could win the award on merit alone and no one could say that he didn't earn it. It's such ******** to imply that people don't want to vote for Mitchell because he's on the West Coast. People LOVE Mitchell, and by all accounts want to vote for him. Some just can't get passed the difference in stats which is HUGE in Simmons favor.

I don't know where the lame *** woe is us **** comes from but please stop. People look at stats and it's easily Simmons. If you take into account their roles for the team, clutch, pure scoring etc. That is the case for Mitchell. And plenty of people will vote for him, and Donovan will have earned those votes. But if he doesn't win it's not because of some stupid bias. Simmons has more than earned the award for himself.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
I hate this ****. Where is the evidence? Simmons could win the award on merit alone and no one could say that he didn't earn it. It's such ******** to imply that people don't want to vote for Mitchell because he's on the West Coast. People LOVE Mitchell, and by all accounts want to vote for him. Some just can't get passed the difference in stats which is HUGE in Simmons favor.

I don't know where the lame *** woe is us **** comes from but please stop. People look at stats and it's easily Simmons. If you take into account their roles for the team, clutch, pure scoring etc. That is the case for Mitchell. And plenty of people will vote for him, and Donovan will have earned those votes. But if he doesn't win it's not because of some stupid bias. Simmons has more than earned the award for himself.
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You won't win this argument.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
I hate this ****. Where is the evidence? Simmons could win the award on merit alone and no one could say that he didn't earn it. It's such ******** to imply that people don't want to vote for Mitchell because he's on the West Coast. People LOVE Mitchell, and by all accounts want to vote for him. Some just can't get passed the difference in stats which is HUGE in Simmons favor.

I don't know where the lame *** woe is us **** comes from but please stop. People look at stats and it's easily Simmons. If you take into account their roles for the team, clutch, pure scoring etc. That is the case for Mitchell. And plenty of people will vote for him, and Donovan will have earned those votes. But if he doesn't win it's not because of some stupid bias. Simmons has more than earned the award for himself.
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The evidence for this is that the people who vote on this often say they dont watch the Jazz because the games are too late. Many of the away broadcast teams this season have said this is the first time they have watched a full game of Mitchell when we play them.

Yes, Simmons can win it on his own merit but he had a huge advantage starting this season. Yes a lot of the numbers favor Simmons at first glance but then when you delve into them it gets a lot closer. But a lot of stats also favor Mitchell. Such as scoring, 4th quarter play, clutch play and others. Then you can also look at the largest factor for Simmons is that people are very impressed and enamored with triple doubles. But I have posted many times that his rebounding stats are empty. They are all uncontested rebounds. While helpful to his team it is more a product of the system and less about what he is doing.

But his Simmons has great stats on his own merit.
 
rare144 said:
I'd put my money on a split ROY award

Good PR, makes sense, still not sure if Simmons rookie card is the 2016-17 or the 2017-18 ;)
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I think this bet is becoming more and more safe. There is a lot of noise for this and I think the NBA wants attention for both of these guys in a positive way.

They also dont want the negative attention that giving it to one or the other would bring from the respective fan bases. Honestly 76ers fans would lose their minds if Simmons didnt get it. Jazz fans would be disappointed but not in the same way.
 
Not watching full Jazz games and not being aware of Mitchell and very different. So they see highlights and don't seem him on his bad shooting nights, that might not even be a negative.

It's easy to make a case for Donovan. I'd love it if he won. But that is no reason to downgrade what Simmons is doing, or to prematurely state 'reasons' why Mitchell lost.
 
Simmons is really good. He also has the ball in his hands more than any player in the NBA, so I'd expect him to have inflated stats. Simmons is the better "overall" player, and I'd probably build a team around him before Mitchell, and I think he deserves the ROY based on his play. Mitchell has that "it" factor, that can push a team to victory. Simmons is a really good defender at more positions. The fact that the Jazz got possibly the best player in the draft (time will tell with regards to Fultz and Tatum), especially at #13, is amazing, especially because there were a lot of good rookies in the lottery. I'd be ok with Co-ROY, but if only one, I think Simmons has the edge.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
Not watching full Jazz games and not being aware of Mitchell and very different. So they see highlights and don't seem him on his bad shooting nights, that might not even be a negative.

It's easy to make a case for Donovan. I'd love it if he won. But that is no reason to downgrade what Simmons is doing, or to prematurely state 'reasons' why Mitchell lost.
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Yes, its a huge hit to Mitchell to not watch him play. Highlights are nice but that does not show how important he is to one of the better teams in the NBA. It does not show how he takes games over in the 4th.

Again, Simmons could win on his own merit but he also has an advantage in that regard.
 
I don’t think that the rookie will win the award. I think the 2nd year player will win unfortunately.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
I hate this ****. Where is the evidence? Simmons could win the award on merit alone and no one could say that he didn't earn it. It's such ******** to imply that people don't want to vote for Mitchell because he's on the West Coast. People LOVE Mitchell, and by all accounts want to vote for him. Some just can't get passed the difference in stats which is HUGE in Simmons favor.

I don't know where the lame *** woe is us **** comes from but please stop. People look at stats and it's easily Simmons. If you take into account their roles for the team, clutch, pure scoring etc. That is the case for Mitchell. And plenty of people will vote for him, and Donovan will have earned those votes. But if he doesn't win it's not because of some stupid bias. Simmons has more than earned the award for himself.
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From Wikipedia:
Fox Sports sportscaster Joe Buck attributes the shift to the economics of running a business. "If you think there is a perceived East Coast bias, guess what? You're right. That's where people are watching, that's where the numbers are."[10] ESPN ombudsman Le Anne Schreiber wrote that fans should forget about expecting equity in teams the network selects to broadcast. "It is long proven in NBA and NFL and MLB that spreading the wealth to 30 or 32 teams is a prescription for deflating ratings," said Len DeLuca, ESPN senior vice president for programming.[6]
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There is a bias. There's no need to whine about it because that won't change anything. It's not going away. There's no need to pretend it doesn't exist, either. A typical Jazz home game begins at 9 pm eastern and ends around midnight eastern. There are a lot more people on both coasts watching a typical home Philadelphia game simply because of the time slot and the number of people in the market.

And there's a large market bias, too. Newsflash: More people care about the Lakers than the Jazz... by far. All things being equal, a Laker resurgence would get far more attention than a Jazz resurgence. If the Lakers had done what the Jazz have since February it would be a huge story. If the Knicks had done it it would be ginormous. Meanwhile, I'll bet there are a lot of casual basketball fans (especially in the East) that aren't even aware of what the Jazz have accomplished in the last few months.
 
I didn't deny the fact that more people live on the East Coast and watch those games. Duh. I said that it wouldn't be the reason Mitchell lost, and I stand by it.

Resurgent Lakers or Knicks would get more attention than resurgent Jazz? Yea obviously. Nice strawman I guess.
 
Bawse Dawg said:
I didn't deny the fact that more people live on the East Coast and watch those games. Duh. I said that it wouldn't be the reason Mitchell lost, and I stand by it.

Resurgent Lakers or Knicks would get more attention than resurgent Jazz? Yea obviously. Nice strawman I guess.
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It's not a strawman. Your statement is proof that you recognize the bias, even though you apparently won't admit that it exists.
 
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