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Say Goodbye to Victor Wem if we continue to play this good.

HermanG said:
I think the concept of tanking is absurd sportswise. It can make sense marketingwise. There are so many things that can derail a single players career, from injuries to adapting to NBA to mental toughness to lack of motivation after their bank account hits 8 figures. International players are especially risky.

Its easy to see theoretical value, but browsing the list of last 20 #1 picks does not support the notion of "whatever means necessary to get a 14% chance to land one of them".

International #1s in the past 20 years:
2018 Ayton
2016 Simmons
2015 KAT
2014 Wiggins
2013 Bennett
2006 Bargani
2005 Bogut

Even if we make a team of all those guys, it would likely be worse than what we are atm.
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I'm for a strategic tank with the idea you try to win, but play your inexperienced players a lot, while resting the experienced players. Also give your other players opportunities to work on gaps in their game, even if it means growing pains. I'd like Lauri to get more floor general opportunities. It is all about development of our young guys. Continue to develop good offense and defense, but let the losses pile up from inexperience.

You don't want to create a culture of not trying/losing, but I think you can veer towards tanking while maintaining a good culture.
 
TheGoldStandard said:
I'm for a strategic tank with the idea you try to win, but play your inexperienced players a lot, while resting the experienced players. Also give your other players opportunities to work on gaps in their game, even if it means growing pains. I'd like Lauri to get more floor general opportunities. It is all about development of our young guys. Continue to develop good offense and defense, but let the losses pile up from inexperience.

You don't want to create a culture of not trying/losing, but I think you can veer towards tanking while maintaining a good culture.
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I hear you. Problem is that culture of losing comes from losing a lot, which is a requirement for successful tanking (assuming the target is 14% for #1). Culture of winning is hard to re-establish once you lose it.

I think this group of outcasts shows Jazz has a winning culture. I would hold on to it, and min/max and develop team through solid value trades and drafting.
 
baka98 said:
www.theringer.com

How Many Wins Is Too Many to Stay in the NBA Tank Race?

Rebuilding teams like the Jazz and Spurs suddenly find themselves at the top of the standings. Will winning so much so early submarine their chances in the Tank-a-rama for Victor Wembanyama? We figured out how many wins a team can’t surpass in order to have a good shot at the no. 1 pick.
www.theringer.com www.theringer.com

25 wins is the limit boys...
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Good. I hope they get past that by early January.
 
TheGoldStandard said:
Lauri has done a great job without being the focus of the offense. I'd like to see the ball in his hands more usage for Lauri and JC a bit less. He needs to learn to be more savvy about getting to the line as well. As it stands, with the ASG in Utah, barring injury, I'd have to think he is a lock for the ASG.
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Goes against his nature selling fouls but it is the NBA. The much I hate it and I think lot of Euros hate it, but if u are hitting star level numbers like this season, gotta start selling them fouls to get more to the line. Another thing that seems to go against his nature is being vocal with demanding the ball. But if he wants to be a consistent star, he has to get over with it and start being more vocal. Game after game. He doesn't need to be that with Mike but there are lot of guards that needs to be reminded if blinders have left on.
 
HermanG said:
I think the concept of tanking is absurd sportswise. It can make sense marketingwise. There are so many things that can derail a single players career, from injuries to adapting to NBA to mental toughness to lack of motivation after their bank account hits 8 figures. International players are especially risky.

Its easy to see theoretical value, but browsing the list of last 20 #1 picks does not support the notion of "whatever means necessary to get a 14% chance to land one of them".

International #1s in the past 20 years:
2018 Ayton
2016 Simmons
2015 KAT
2014 Wiggins
2013 Bennett
2006 Bargani
2005 Bogut

Even if we make a team of all those guys, it would likely be worse than what we are atm.
Click to expand...
Ah, but you forget that "We've never seen anything like this before". We've never seen a very tall, super skinny dude from outside the U.S. who moves well, likes to play on the perimeter and takes lots of jump shots. It's literally NEVER HAPPENED. I'm freaking out. Is this real life?
 
I trust DA. I'm pretty sure based on our tought schedule that he will choose the direction after 20 games.

2 options for me valuable :
- We are at 12-8, 13-7.. let's try to win as much games as we can, finish with 45, and we are the PO underdog. Then DA can use our asset to get 2 more valuable players and we will be f...good next year.
- We are at 10-10, 9-11, then go for the tank... make a much series of 2-8 possible and end with 20-25 win max.

The worst scenario for me is to end at 40 win, make the play-in and get f... in the draft. We have nothing to win staying in-between.
But i'm note too worry. DA is a genious, he know what he is doing.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Ah, but you forget that "We've never seen anything like this before". We've never seen a very tall, super skinny dude from outside the U.S. who moves well, likes to play on the perimeter and takes lots of jump shots. It's literally NEVER HAPPENED. I'm freaking out. Is this real life?
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Got the chance to see Victor playing 2 times. At the begginning i tought he was too skynny to make it but he gain force and more important he is incredibly fast and skillfull with the ball. With this size he will be a phenomenon for sure.
 
The more I see Victor play, the more it's starting to seem like his NBA role on offense will be a center who spends most of his time standing on the perimeter, off the ball, and spacing the floor. He's much too tall to handle the ball against NBA defenders and much too skinny to bang with true bigs, but you can't bother his 3pt shot. In other words, his ceiling is Porzingis part deux, similar to Chet. It's the same on the other size of the ball. No doubt he'll be a great shot blocker.

Now... that's fine, he'll have a good NBA career IF he can somehow stay healthy, but it's also very far from being a league-changing, contender-creating, generational talent. We've never seen him face anyone like the people he's gonna have to battle with in the NBA - in Europe he's going up against 6'9'' athletically challenged tryhards masquerading as centers.

You can't fool physics. Victor has such a ridiculously high center of gravity that he'll inevitably get pushed around by much smaller, much stronger guys in the League. It doesn't matter how "hard" he tries to play. Like all super tall and skinny youngins these days, he'll escape to the perimeter and start hoisting.

This is not the dude you tank for.

Also, I really get annoyed by the constant disrespect of Porzingis in all these Victor debates. I'm not even a KP fan, not by a long shot, but before his knee injury (and bulking up) he was a true unicorn, capable of a lot of incredible stuff people seem to have forgotten. And he did it as a #1 option against actual NBA defenses aiming to take him out of the game.

Comparing Victor's French league highlights with that is an utter joke. KP would average 40ppg there.
 
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Tremendous Upside said:
The more I see Victor play, the more it's starting to seem like his NBA role on offense will be a center who spends most of his time standing on the perimeter, off the ball, and spacing the floor. He's much too tall to handle the ball against NBA defenders and much too skinny to bang with true bigs, but you can't bother his 3pt shot. In other words, his ceiling is Porzingis part deux, similar to Chet. It's the same on the other size of the ball. No doubt he'll be a great shot blocker.

Now... that's fine, he'll have a good NBA career IF he can somehow stay healthy, but it's also very far from being a league-changing, contender-creating, generational talent. We've never seen him face anyone like the people he's gonna have to battle with in the NBA - in Europe he's going up against 6'9'' athletically challenged tryhards masquerading as centers.

You can't fool physics. Victor has such a ridiculously high center of gravity that he'll inevitably get pushed around by much smaller, much stronger guys in the League. It doesn't matter how "hard" he tries to play. Like all super tall and skinny youngins these days, he'll escape to the perimeter and start hoisting.

This is not the dude you tank for.

Also, I really get annoyed by the constant disrespect of Porzingis in all these Victor debates. I'm not even a KP fan, not by a long shot, but before his knee injury (and bulking up) he was a true unicorn, capable of a lot of incredible stuff people seem to have forgotten. And he did it as a #1 option against actual NBA defenses aiming to take him out of the game.

Comparing Victor's French league highlights with that is an utter joke. KP would average 40ppg there.
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Wembanyama just played his first NT game. He completely destroyed Lithuania on both ends in an away game. It's usually very close and France won by 25 while he only played 23 mn. He's basically unplayable at age 18. He's a lot better than KP.
 
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Krakdol said:
Wembanyama just played his first NT game. He completely destroyed Lithuania on both ends in an away game. It's usually very close and France won by 25 while he only played 23 mn. He's basically unplayable at age 18. He's a lot better than KP.
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Lithuania had a terrible team.
 
Victor is unique. Batum, Lebron tell it and for seeing him play few times, yes he is very different from what we have seen yet. And very mature for a 18 years kids. Will he succeed? i have zero doubt he will be a superstar. But people expect that he will come next year and put 22/12 every game. It won't happen. He will be against the best player in the world and need to gain muscle. But he is so smart that he will be special for sure. I think it will take him 2 to 3 years before we see his real potential.
 
I think that the if not injuries due to his side, the pressure and mental stuff will bite him in the arse. I don't want to down-play him but I don't have particularly high hopes that he will achieve what is expected of him.
 
I think it’s time to stop comparing him to guys like Porzingis and start comparing him to guys like Lauri. I think that’s his superstar role in the NBA. If he can play a similar type of game as what we’re seeing from Markkanen this year (and stay healthy) he’s going to be a star.

Hopefully, the Minnesota pick pays off. Would love to see Wemby and Lauri together. Plug Victor into the Kelly Olynyk role long-term and watch the Jazz feast.
 
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