Should DL Trade Hayward?

[framer]

What we need is for someone to make up an unfounded rumor like "I hear that Minnesota is offering Kevin Love for Gordon Hayward!" Then have Jazzfanz posters regret that we didn't do that deal for the next 4 years. "I know we should have traded Hayward for Love, but Jazz just never make any moves. I HATE the front office! They are always sitting on their hands!" See also Kirilenko, Andre. . .

 

[Coach Ellis]

What we need is for someone to make up an unfounded rumor like "I hear that Minnesota is offering Kevin Love for Gordon Hayward!" Then have Jazzfanz posters regret that we didn't do that deal for the next 4 years. "I know we should have traded Hayward for Love, but Jazz just never make any moves. I HATE the front office! They are always sitting on their hands!" See also Kirilenko, Andre. . .

Wait! The Jazz could have traded Andre Kirilinko to Minnesota for Kevin Love? Why the heck didn't they make that trade? I HATE the front office! (sarcasm off now)

 

[framer]

I believe ithe rumor was Kirlenko for Marion straight up. In reality though, Phoenix wanted Hayward or Kanter as well.

 

[yamers]

hayward turned down 12mil a year?

 

[akirac73]

hayward turned down 12mil a year?

For the Jazz's sake, I'm glad he did.

 

[Bodhi]

To me Gordon's market value was set when Batum signed for $11m~. Value set in regards to, if you offer me Batum or Gordon, salary not an issue, I go Batum every single time. He does basically everything Gordon does but more consistently.

He scores at a slightly lower clip but that's because he is what Gordon is, a good complimentary piece to go with a contending team.

I don't think Gordon has ANY killer instinct. None. Not "less". None. I see him progressing very little, if any from here on out. Flame away.

 

[yamers]

To me Gordon's market value was set when Batum signed for $11m~. Value set in regards to, if you offer me Batum or Gordon, salary not an issue, I go Batum every single time. He does basically everything Gordon does but more consistently.

He scores at a slightly lower clip but that's because he is what Gordon is, a good complimentary piece to go with a contending team.

I don't think Gordon has ANY killer instinct. None. Not "less". None. I see him progressing very little, if any from here on out. Flame away.

I dont even know how to feel about Hayward anymore. I'd be happy if he signed for like 7mil...then he'd be good, but the fact that he wants over 10mil is really odd. He wanted to try his hand to prove that he can be a big time player, but thus far he has done nothing but disappoint with a few games of brilliance.

and yes I have to agree. Hayward has 0 killer instinct, he has no clutch gene, and his handles are straight up garbage. His **** has been hot garbage too. Crobain needs to back off this absolutely ludacris offense we know now has hayfense.

I think its safe to say Hayward is not a #1 option nor should he be running an offense.

I also do blame crobain for this.

/edit/

usually 3-4 yrs is when players really begin to emerge. It's safe to say we can all see the type of player hayward is. He has had ample playing time to show and improve.

 

[urujazz]

Yeah but who do you want on Boston or Phoenix? Other than draft picks.

I think the best scenario is to trade Hayward to Boston at the trade deadline. Burks has stepped up his game this season enough to think he can fill the SG spot just fine.
GH is not worth 11-12m if you ask me, if the Jazz wants to keep Gordon, then the offer must be between 8-10m max.

If I were DL, I would try to trade Hayward + Kanter + fillter (JL3 or Evans) for their top pick in 2014 + Brandon Bass + filler(Olynyk or even a trade exception). If needed you can add the GS pick also to make it work.

PG - Trey Burke - Raul Neto
SG - Alec Burks - Dante Exum (UTH pick)
SF - Wiggins/Parker (BOS pick) - Marvin Williams
PF - Brandon Bass - Jeremy Evans
C - Derrick Favors - Rudy Gobert - Kelly Olynyk

That's my dream.

 

[r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t]

To me Gordon's market value was set when Batum signed for $11m~. Value set in regards to, if you offer me Batum or Gordon, salary not an issue, I go Batum every single time. He does basically everything Gordon does but more consistently.

He scores at a slightly lower clip but that's because he is what Gordon is, a good complimentary piece to go with a contending team.

I don't think Gordon has ANY killer instinct. None. Not "less". None. I see him progressing very little, if any from here on out. Flame away.

Batum is said to be a pretty good defender, right? I really don't know much about him. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Any player paid north of $10 million better have an elite skill. What is Hayward's elite skill? Anyone think he is an elite defender? After last season, it looked like he might become an elite shooter. Anyone still believe that will happen?

 

[sojodave]

Back-to-back 3 for 13 games....whooooffffff, we've got to trade him while we can still get something for him.

 

[Stoked]

I say no. But is he does it better be a damn good deal.

 

[r_u_s_t_b_u_c_k_e_t]

Burks has stepped up his game this season enough to think he can fill the SG spot just fine.

Burks has been a better three point shooter than Hayward this season.

 

[Stifle Tower]

Crobain needs to back off this absolutely ludacris offense we know now has hayfense.

I think its safe to say Hayward is not a #1 option nor should he be running an offense.

I also do blame crobain for this.

I also blame Corbin. After a rough 1st half of his rookie season, Hayward has generally been pretty good, starting off a little slowly each season, but then getting better as the year progresses. His career avgs were around 45%/40%.

He's then asked to do everything early in the season with no PG and the numbers fall. Clearly, he's not Kobe nor LeBron. So what should be the solution? Back off. Let him be a wing, but don't ask him to be the primary playmaker, especially with Burke on the team. This is absolutely a coaching problem. It's plain to everyone BUT Ty that Gordon is struggling in his expanded role. Gordon has increased his rebounding rate. He's upped his steals average. Just back off on having him try to be a creator on offense and I think his shooting will come back.

Also have to wonder after that hot streak whether his hip is still bothering him. He came out of his slump, caught fire, then was out and has played horribly since.

 

[Bodhi]

Batum is said to be a pretty good defender, right? I really don't know much about him. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Any player paid north of $10 million better have an elite skill. What is Hayward's elite skill? Anyone think he is an elite defender? After last season, it looked like he might become an elite shooter. Anyone still believe that will happen?

Yes, at least from defensive impact stats on stats.nba.com. They are both similarly long and can guard multiple positions. That said, again, Batum has something I haven't seen in Gordon the entire time he's been here, and that's fire.

This was supposed to be the year he was given the reigns and I can't think of a single thing he's done to put his stamp on this team. Conversely, we have a kid that, for better or worse, has "killer instinct" in spades, in Burks.

Having a defensive mindset can't come from one player (Gordon) it has to come from the coaching staff. Point being, losing Hayward won't hurt our defense much since it's already atrocious to begin with. But giving Alec 38 mins as a result of losing Hayward, IMO, is a win, on top of whatever asset(s) we get as a result of a trade.


Who is genuinely scared we will look like fools for trading Hayward and having him in turn "lead" a team to a championship or an impressive playoff run? Count me in the "not a ****ing chance" category.

Again, nice piece, not a leader.

 

[Stifle Tower]

I agree and want him to stay.

I do not understand why DL did not pay him before the season.

Guess that is why I am not a GM

Rumor was they offered about the same deal as Favors got. Hayward turned it down. Obviously he thought his play this season would show teams he was worth $12M-$13M/per. Smart by the Jazz to basically say "prove it." Just like Millsap, Utah will let the market determine Hayward's value. If another team offers more, Jazz will likely match. If not, they'll put their offer back on the table. With plenty of room under the cap/tax threshold, there are no "poison pills" that would cause Utah problems.

The ONLY way I see Hayward leaving is if a team, knowing that Utah is 99% certain to match a deal, come up with a good enough sign-and-trade offer. IINM, once a team signs a RFA to an offer, that player cannot be traded to that team. So perhaps look for Boston or Phoenix to at least make contact with Utah, perhaps before this season's trading deadline.

 

[Dogdor]

I am with you sojodave! I feel that we never should have drafted him in the first place(thanks a lot Jerry Sloan). The only way I would keep him is if he came off my bench for about 6-8 million a year. I think we would go from being an average shooting guard/small forward as a starter to being one of the better sixth men in the leauge. Burks should start over him anyway. But, I'm with you we should trade while he still has value.

 

[akirac73]

I also blame Corbin. After a rough 1st half of his rookie season, Hayward has generally been pretty good, starting off a little slowly each season, but then getting better as the year progresses. His career avgs were around 45%/40%.

He's then asked to do everything early in the season with no PG and the numbers fall. Clearly, he's not Kobe nor LeBron. So what should be the solution? Back off. Let him be a wing, but don't ask him to be the primary playmaker, especially with Burke on the team. This is absolutely a coaching problem. It's plain to everyone BUT Ty that Gordon is struggling in his expanded role. Gordon has increased his rebounding rate. He's upped his steals average. Just back off on having him try to be a creator on offense and I think his shooting will come back.

Also have to wonder after that hot streak whether his hip is still bothering him. He came out of his slump, caught fire, then was out and has played horribly since.

I notice in every game when both Burke and Hayward are on the court together, Burke brings the ball down the court, then hands it off to Hayward in the half court set to lead the offense. I don't get it? Burke is the PG of the team, let him run the offense. Hayward running an offense is a turnover waiting to happen. It drives me even more nuts when Hayward has the ball in his hands at the end of quarters with time running down...the ball should be in Burke's hands. Hayward is absolute garbage in these clutch/iso situations, 19 times out of 20 you'll get nothing out of it.

 

[akirac73]

Who is genuinely scared we will look like fools for trading Hayward and having him in turn "lead" a team to a championship or an impressive playoff run? Count me in the "not a ****ing chance" category.

Mark me down for the latter.

 

[Dogdor]

We never even should have drafted him. Thanks a lot Jerry....

 

[Stifle Tower]

Mark me down for the latter.

At this point in his career, I don't think Hayward will "lead" a team to a championship. But I do believe he can be a helluva player averaging 18/5/4 and a threat from 3-pt range. But he is NOT a PG and shouldn't essentially be used as such. Let Hayward play to his strengths. That is entirely the fault of the coaching staff and FO.

We would look foolish for trading him for less value IF/WHEN he goes to a team that uses him correctly.