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Supreme Court Justice Kennedy to Retire

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Maybe we should consider recollection. kaavy baby says he didn't do any of this. But in the big two allegations he was reported as being drunk. Much like the two accusers. How can he make a fair recollection if he was drunk?



So you want the burden of proof to be on the accused? Each party may truly believe what they are saying because they were probably all ********d. Honestly, I believe what Ford stated over Ramirez. Not only did other people Ramirez confirmed were in the room state it didn't happen (females too), the NY times reported that Ramirez called a bunch of prior classmates to see if they remembered Kavanaugh doing it because she couldn't remember if it was him or not. Yet after six days of soul searching and trying to remember she decided it was. From what I have read so far, the only collaborating statements for Ramirez were from other students that heard about it, but weren't there, or from people who wouldn't be surprised if Kavanaugh did it. She went from being unsure to remembering that someone went down the hall yelling that Brett Kavanaugh just stuck his dick in someone's face!

I don't like what our politicians are doing. The Garland debacle was awful and this is worse. I am so disappointed in our elected leaders. I think this debacle hurts both parties.
 
So you want the burden of proof to be on the accused? Each party may truly believe what they are saying because they were probably all ********d. Honestly, I believe what Ford stated over Ramirez. Not only did other people Ramirez confirmed were in the room state it didn't happen (females too), the NY times reported that Ramirez called a bunch of prior classmates to see if they remembered Kavanaugh doing it because she couldn't remember if it was him or not. Yet after six days of soul searching and trying to remember she decided it was. From what I have read so far, the only collaborating statements for Ramirez were from other students that heard about it, but weren't there, or from people who wouldn't be surprised if Kavanaugh did it. She went from being unsure to remembering that someone went down the hall yelling that Brett Kavanaugh just stuck his dick in someone's face!

I don't like what our politicians are doing. The Garland debacle was awful and this is worse. I am so disappointed in our elected leaders. I think this debacle hurts both parties.

No. If there's an accusation, I want it investigated. Understand that, re-evaluate, respond again, and I'll read the rest.
 
ok, so keith ellison should not be a congressman or senator or whatever the **** he is?

Proving the Theory of Stopped Clocks, DutchJazzer has this one right. Ellison should not have a position in the DNC. As for elected office, I would only vote for him if his opponent were Trumpish.
 
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Kavanaugh is not in a court of law. There is no burden of proof.



While both are behaving as if they believe what they are saying, Ford's testimony is more reliable, as Ramirez herself has made clear.

There is no court of law, but there definitely is a burden of proof. That burden in this case will be decided by a Republican controlled Senate, which I highly doubt will ask Kavanaugh to prove a negative. And without more proof, that is how they will treat the allegations.

I won't go so far as to say that Ramirez believes what she is saying based on the NY Times article where the Times, while doing their own investigation, called many of the people Ramirez stated were at the party or knew of the incident. The Times discovered that Ramirez called these people already, to see if they remembered Kavanaugh exposing himself to her, because she couldn't remember if it was him. That doesn't sound like she is very confident in what she is saying. Here is the excerpt:

"The Times had interviewed several dozen people over the past week in an attempt to corroborate her story, and could find no one with firsthand knowledge. Ms. Ramirez herself contacted former Yale classmates asking if they recalled the incident and told some of them that she could not be certain Mr. Kavanaugh was the one who exposed himself."
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/23/us/politics/brett-kavanaugh-christine-blasey-ford-testify.html
 
There is no court of law, but there definitely is a burden of proof. That burden in this case will be decided by a Republican controlled Senate, which I highly doubt will ask Kavanaugh to prove a negative. And without more proof, that is how they will treat the allegations.

Interesting how you see the Republicans in the Senate as a single voice. The confirmation (not case) will be decided by the ability to gain 50 votes for the nominee.

I won't go so far as to say that Ramirez believes what she is saying ...

I would not expect you to. I have no doubt you have some plausible reason in your mind for her to say this despite her believing it to be untrue.

"Ms. Ramirez herself contacted former Yale classmates asking if they recalled the incident and told some of them that she could not be certain Mr. Kavanaugh was the one who exposed himself."

Was she calling for a positive ID, or checking to see if someone offered an alternate ID? If one of the people she called had said, "Yeah, I remember it was Blake Ash who put his dick on your face, not Brett", do you think she would still be coming forward?
 
No. If there's an accusation, I want it investigated. Understand that, re-evaluate, respond again, and I'll read the rest.

Why the rush for confirmation? No one here has been able to explain this to me. Why not investigate this issue? Why the rush to confirming him before the midterms?
 
Why the rush for confirmation? No one here has been able to explain this to me. Why not investigate this issue? Why the rush to confirming him before the midterms?
What I've heard is that the right wing base will be depressed if they don't get that position filled. My cynical *** is pretty sure it's because they know this guy is shady as ****, and have no interest in an investigation exposing him. One development I found interesting today was that Dr Ford apparently wrote her congresswoman (not Feinstein) about Kavanaugh before he was even nominated, when he was on the White House's shortlist. If Senate Republicans or the White House were aware of this and didn't investigate these claims during the vetting process...
 
What I've heard is that the right wing base will be depressed if they don't get that position filled. My cynical *** is pretty sure it's because they know this guy is shady as ****, and have no interest in an investigation exposing him. One development I found interesting today was that Dr Ford apparently wrote her congresswoman (not Feinstein) about Kavanaugh before he was even nominated, when he was on the White House's shortlist. If Senate Republicans or the White House were aware of this and didn't investigate these claims during the vetting process...

Right.

It’s pretty obvious that republicans were well aware of at least some of these women and prepared to combat them by smearing them and filling a list of people who would vouch for him.

It still doesn’t mean he didn’t commit these horrific acts.

Now that 3 or 4 women have come forward, when will republicans finally admit that Harvey Kavanaugh I mean Brett Weinstein probably shouldn’t be confirmed to thtrump Supreme Court?

I’m sure republicans can find another nutjob to kill unions and attack women’s choice, right?

Or are they afraid that they’ll lose the senate and democrats will force them to nominate a moderate or keep it open until they retake the White House 2021?
 
Interesting how you see the Republicans in the Senate as a single voice. The confirmation (not case) will be decided by the ability to gain 50 votes for the nominee.

I would not expect you to. I have no doubt you have some plausible reason in your mind for her to say this despite her believing it to be untrue.

Was she calling for a positive ID, or checking to see if someone offered an alternate ID? If one of the people she called had said, "Yeah, I remember it was Blake Ash who put his dick on your face, not Brett", do you think she would still be coming forward?

From the information provided to date, it seems fairly evident that Ramirez has doubt that it was Kavanaugh, otherwise she wouldn't have called a bunch of classmates to verify, and state she couldn't remember if it was him or not. IIRC, she even stated that she wasn't confident enough to come forward and was essentially pressured to do so. And when I say "in this case", I think you can infer that I wasn't referring to a legal case, but the issue at hand. What is more interesting is that some people think that our politicians will break from party lines and make a proper decision instead of a party decision. Sadly it just doesn't happen very often. The Republicans know that the potential shaping of legal decisions for a long time are at stake, and they are willing to risk a lot to push their guy through. Do you think without more evidence that he won't get confirmed?

She was quoted as stating that she wasn't certain it was Kavanaugh that did it. After six days not only did she decide it was him, she suddenly remembered that someone ran down the hall and stated Brett Kavanaugh (not just Brett) stuck his dick in some girls face or something along those lines. So I reiterate, I'm not sure she fully believes it was him, because she doesn't remember what happened, and she has said as much to multiple classmates. I'm sure she thinks it happened, and remembers something happening, but I don't think she would have moved forward with an allegation without pressure from others, because she was unsure of what exactly happened and who did it. Hopefully someone with a better recollection comes forward and clears it up one way or another.

As I stated above, I'm more convinced that what happened with Ford probably did occur. Just hard to prove with no one to back up her claim regarding the incident or the party (a lot of fuzzy details). I've been dragged to parties where I didn't know what house I was at, just the vicinity, so I believe everything she stated may have happened, and the fuzzy details seem reasonable. It's just unfortunate for her that the witness that was in the room and the other two she said were at the party (including a good friend) have no recollection of the event or the party. I also went to a lot of parties in high school and beyond, and without a traumatic event happening to me, I couldn't tell you all the parties I went to or who was there. I'm sure both events are being investigated by the senate (at least the Democrats). Maybe something will make it all stick. But as it stands, Kavanaugh will likely still get confirmed. Just they way our political process works. Same thing happened with Clarence Thomas and Anita Hill, and the whole thing, even though investigated, was largely railroaded to make her look like a lying slut. Pretty sad that we put up with the circus time and time again.
 
Why the rush for confirmation? No one here has been able to explain this to me. Why not investigate this issue? Why the rush to confirming him before the midterms?

I don't believe an investigation is rushing anything; merely going through all due diligence that appears to be necessary.

What are you imagining as reasonable, and should happen at this stage? First, with the sexual assault accusations, and secondly with the whole of the confirmation process?
 
If repubs truly think these women are lying doesn’t that make it more necessary to investigate? After all, this could derail his nomination, right?
 
I don't believe an investigation is rushing anything; merely going through all due diligence that appears to be necessary.

What are you imagining as reasonable, and should happen at this stage? First, with the sexual assault accusations, and secondly with the whole of the confirmation process?

I support a full and complete investigation. There are more important things that ramroding this before th midterms.
 
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Why wouldn't republicans want this to be investigated thoroughly? If these women are lying then they should face consequences and democrats certainly should feel it politically, right? I mean, the fear is that there's a blue wave coming. But if these accusations are proven before the midterms to be nothing but fake news, couldn't that severely hinder the "blue wave" by democrats?

I just don't understand why anyone wouldn't want this to be investigated unless there is genuine fear that these accusers are telling the truth. If that's the case then what does that say about the senate GOP who are rushing to jam this through without any investigation?
 
I support a full and complete investigation. There are more important things that ramroding this before th midterms.
What I don't get, and maybe it's because I give people who vote republican too much credit, but if they do ram this guy through before midterms they are going to get absolutely killed among women voters right?

I mean, any GOP senator who votes to confirm this guy absent a thorough investigation is alienating half of their constituency. Seems like a bad strategy.
 
There are more important things that ramroding this before th midterms.

I'm not sure I should argue with that. I guess that's fair... but what's more pressing that's actually going to get done more effectively before midterms?
 
What I don't get, and maybe it's because I give people who vote republican too much credit, but if they do ram this guy through before midterms they are going to get absolutely killed among women voters right?

I mean, any GOP senator who votes to confirm this guy absent a thorough investigation is alienating half of their constituency. Seems like a bad strategy.

Do republicans care anymore? Maybe they feel that as long as they hold onto the 35-39 percent of (white) voters that they'll successfully obstruct democrats until power swings their way again in the mid 2020s? I honestly don't know.

It feels like the GOP has all but given up trying to win over voters outside of their Fox News/Conspiracy filled bubble. I suppose that it makes sense as oligarchy money from the Kochs, Adelson, Mercers, etc fueled by tax cuts and deregulation keeps the party well funded. And as long as they can successfully obstruct democrats and control enough state legislatures, they can continue to roll back the advances of the past century and continue to turn America into a kleptocracy.
 
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