To be specific, I was referring to status. If you prefer, replace it with "very light brown".
The history white people need to learn
- Thread starter scootsy
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To be specific, I was referring to status. If you prefer, replace it with "very light brown".
I can't find a lot of webz articles from 100+ years ago. Where do you go for those?
I admit to being more emotionally invest in one group than the other, so that's where I focus, but I don't think you'll see me saying anything different on the treatment of Native Americans, I just say much less about it. If you like, I can talk about how insensitive it is to use a picture of an Italian pretending to be a Native American.
How about we first get to the point where the oppression no longer happens, and then we can discuss that timeline?
Are you asking only one group to take all action and bear all responsibility for todays current society?
If so, that will never get you or your cause anywhere.
The length of accountability would depend on the level of damage, don't you think. If things continue to improve, such a period would decrease. If they get worse, it would increase.
I'm aware of only three ways that power goes from being concentrated to being shared or transferred:
1) death or other inability to wield power among those who hold it,
2) revolution,
3) those in power decide to share it.
I'm not a big fan or 1) or 2). However, if you have other options, I'm all ears.
Yes it would, which goes back to my question: how long until the oppressed start taking responsibility for their lives and stop blaming others?
In order to answer that fairly, I'd have to consider what the level of damage was when the oppression stopped. Since the oppression is ongoing, I don't have a decent way to look at that right now.
It won't matter what happens in this world, there will always be people who are voluntarily oppressed, or victims. If you're waiting for oppression to end before you start taking responsibility, then I don't know what to tell you. Good luck with your struggle though.
Replacing "fully responsible" (as you used in post #60) with "start taking responsibility" is dishonest argumentation, and arguing that black people have not started taking responsibility is counter-factual.
Good catch.
Out of curiosity, what percent of black people would you say are taking responsibility for their circumstances (either good or bad)?
I would say just about anyone in my classroom has started taking responsibility. Any mother who makes her kids go to school has started. I've met very few who take no responsibility at all; I can't recall any offhand that didn't wind up in jail. So, around 95+% in my experience. What would you guess?
No other option is needed. I truly believe that far more white people are accepting, and in some cases even eager, for option 3 than you give them credit for. I do not see "sharing", as you put it, as removing any power from me.
When the notion is removed and abstract, people favor option 3; they are less favorable when there is an impact in their lives.
I agree they would be less favorable. However, I still maintain that is is dramatically over exaggerated about how the the white race is is opposed to raising other races to their level.
Things like removing extra surveilance in stores, equal sentencing for crimes, increased funding for inner city schools (among dozens and dozens of examples)...do not have to have a single negative impact on my life. Any argument that it will is hollow and empty to me.
I reject the notion that I have to lessen my privileges to increase those of others. That by raising them up I lower myself in any way.
[size/HUGE] boobs [/size]
Banned
You have convoluted view. You really think everyone views world through your lenses? Of course no. This is elitist American softness. Your parents have been on the top for so long that your children are starting to question whether or not they deserve their princely crown. This is natural juvenile questioning.
What you speak of is white guilt. I am victim of Russophobes and I make promises that whiteness is not a concept. My people are more persecuted world wide in this day than Jews or Africans.
First of all, the title of this thread is egalitarian condescending racism that implies the po' white trash jes gotta be told somehow what it takes to be enlightened.
If you tried to tell the black folks how to fix themselves with the same kind of graciousness, you'd be hauled out on the street and strung up on the big elm tree in the town square today.
It's not a "problem" that one class of folks has where another class doesn't have it. We all have it.
I thought you were gonna actually be smart and try to tell the story of the Cherokee Trail of Tears, or the Navajo Trail of tears, or of Chief Pontiac or Sitting Bull. Maybe Blackhawk, who Abraham Lincoln helped run down, joining in the chase to avenge the slain settlers who trespassed on an Indian treaty settlement and drove the indians out, and lost their bid to hold that ground. Abraham Lincoln spoke warmly about the need to kill the Indians, and after the Civil War our government went on the warpath to run the Indians off the Great Plains. A clear policy of genocide.
Another tragic tale of our shameful history is the saga of how General Miles pursued Chief Joseph from Oregon through the northern plains and cut him off just short of assylum in Canada.
Most Indians today have a lot of Black ancestry simply because both groups were occluded from "acceptable" society and opportunities in life for over a hundred years since the Civil War.
If you tried to tell the black folks how to fix themselves with the same kind of graciousness, you'd be hauled out on the street and strung up on the big elm tree in the town square today.
It's not a "problem" that one class of folks has where another class doesn't have it. We all have it.
I thought you were gonna actually be smart and try to tell the story of the Cherokee Trail of Tears, or the Navajo Trail of tears, or of Chief Pontiac or Sitting Bull. Maybe Blackhawk, who Abraham Lincoln helped run down, joining in the chase to avenge the slain settlers who trespassed on an Indian treaty settlement and drove the indians out, and lost their bid to hold that ground. Abraham Lincoln spoke warmly about the need to kill the Indians, and after the Civil War our government went on the warpath to run the Indians off the Great Plains. A clear policy of genocide.
Another tragic tale of our shameful history is the saga of how General Miles pursued Chief Joseph from Oregon through the northern plains and cut him off just short of assylum in Canada.
Most Indians today have a lot of Black ancestry simply because both groups were occluded from "acceptable" society and opportunities in life for over a hundred years since the Civil War.
The use of "opposition" signals a level of intent that I don't propose exists in large quantities. What happens is alterations in behavior.
If black people are being watched less, white people will be watched more (they don't get paid for not watching people). If overall sentencing does not change (I think we both agree that sentences should be reduced/eliminated for many crimes) and black sentences get shorter, white sentences will be longer. Sending more funding to inner city schools means less for suburbs and rural areas.
Not "what it takes to be enlightened", just "what it was" to actually enlighten.
I didn't see in the article where Daniel said white people needed fixing, much less suggest how to do it. She only explained why "black pride" and "white pride" were not equivalent concepts.
You make good points on the historical treatment of Native Americans.