The Blue Elephant
Well-Known Member
The Jazz weren't able to trade Millsap or Al Jefferson at trade deadline. What makes you think Kanter is any more valuable?
The market for Enes Kanter
- Thread starter Hedda Gambler
- Start date
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
^ why would we be letting him walk for nothing? Why couldn't we just sign him and continue to develop him? As has been pointed out many times, the money won't be an issue, even when it comes to signing Dante, and there are plenty of minutes to go around. Rudy, Enes and Derrick can all play 30 + mins a night.
Timothy Mostov, really? I mean he is decent, but he's 28, and Kanter is already better than him. Mosgov is also not a passer. Better of teaching Enes how to pass.
A. Burks abd Kanter for Nick Young and Steve Nash trade exemption? How on earth does this make sense? This would be horrible for us. How does this help us?
Timothy Mostov, really? I mean he is decent, but he's 28, and Kanter is already better than him. Mosgov is also not a passer. Better of teaching Enes how to pass.
A. Burks abd Kanter for Nick Young and Steve Nash trade exemption? How on earth does this make sense? This would be horrible for us. How does this help us?
Hedda Gambler
Well-Known Member
Wow. Just wow.
Lakers_Slapper
Well-Known Member
Let me clarify,
I agree with you that developing Kanter would be the answer. But will he re-sign? My comment on signing Mosgov, I was just making a point that he's about as good as it gets for a straight across trade and at that, isn't worth it. A multi player deal with LAL wouldn't be a trade you would want to go after but one that would make sense if we were going to lose Kanter for nothing. Its a better than nothing type of deal. Not something to aim for. The only thing I see if we were to trade Kanter is a 3 team trade.
The perfect situation would be to extend him and add depth to the bench, but Kanter nor Gobert will be ok with coming off the bench for very long. Its a tough deal anyway you look at it.
Hedda Gambler
Well-Known Member
Enes Kanter does not decide if he walks away this summer - we do. If he gets an insane offer, we`re way better off by getting cap space than to be having a sporadic scorer like Nick Young or CJ Miles on the team.
Lakers_Slapper
Well-Known Member
Oh good lord, first of all, put away your torches and pitch forks, I understand that he is restricted. But if we choose not to match his contract, what do we get in return?? NOTHING. Why in the hell would you draft a player, invest hours and hours of practice time, hire a big man/defense coordinator to spend hours upon hours with him week after week after week for years and years and years, invest, invest, invest and then come summer time of 2015, wave goodbye?? That's all I'm saying!!! I was using a simple example. And who the hell said anything about CJ Miles?? Thank God for Obamacare, there is a good chance that you have health insurance either because you were forced to or you are still carried under your mothers plan (that's my guess) because you should really utilize it and get your head examined.
Hedda Gambler
Well-Known Member
No. We get cap space. Do you know who we signed for pure cap space this summer? Trevor Booker. Would you rather trade for Nick Young or use the cap space if Enes leaves on Demarre Carroll or a Booker-type player?
If we are going to trade Enes Kanter, we have to do it now - before the trade deadline. That means giving up on RFA and the chance to match his contract - or even have him play out his QO. If you rather have Nick Young than the chance of extend Enes or pure Cap Space, that`s your choice, but I`m pretty certain that you`d be in the minority.
Hedda Gambler
Well-Known Member
Enes Kanter is a good offensive player. His defense is the weak part of his game. In stats, he does well in PER and bad in Win Shares. I looked at the drafts from 2008 to 2011 and compared all the players drafted from 15 to 30 - meaning all 1st rounders outside of the lottery - to see how they compare in their 4th year to Enes` play this year.
Of the 64 players drafted from 15-30 from 2008 - 2011, 37,5% of them have a higher WS/48 rating. Only 10,94% have a higher PER. Which stats you like differ from person to person, but based on these numbers we will have a 37,5% chance of getting a better player than Enes based on WS/48 and a 10,94% chance of getting a player who put up a higher PER.
Small sample size and all that, these numbers suggest that trading Enes for a non-lottery 1st round pick would be a bad trade for us.
Of the 64 players drafted from 15-30 from 2008 - 2011, 37,5% of them have a higher WS/48 rating. Only 10,94% have a higher PER. Which stats you like differ from person to person, but based on these numbers we will have a 37,5% chance of getting a better player than Enes based on WS/48 and a 10,94% chance of getting a player who put up a higher PER.
Small sample size and all that, these numbers suggest that trading Enes for a non-lottery 1st round pick would be a bad trade for us.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Well, there's also salary to be considered. Pay Enes $10-$15M and that's about all you can do. Utah hasplenty of room under the tax this year and next, but that really disappears in years 3 and 4 of Kanter's deal. Also need to consider team chemistry. Gobert needs to start with Favors as the PF. Will Enes be content coming off the bench? That was a major consideration in letting both AL and Paul leave. Enes and Derrick were pushing for starting roles. Get a rookie in the 14-20 range and he'd be ok with being the 4th big or wing. And he'd be paid <$2M. That leaves room for making a stab at an upper-tier FA in 2 years.
Lakers_Slapper
Well-Known Member
Again, the trade for Nick Young, was an EXAMPLE. 1 single example. As I have said over and over again.
When did I say that I would rather trade for Nick Young instead of extending Kanter?? Once again I said that if we take the risk of losing Kanter for nothing, than yes a trade for something in exchange is better than pure cap space. I am saying this because it's Enes Kanter we are talking about. You don't draft a player of his caliber and invest years in him to give him away for nothing.
I already can see you not comprehending so let me describe "give him away for nothing".
If we can resign him, even better. Will he be happy with coming off the bench?? NO! Thats why he will seek a contract option. The Jazz then can turn it down (lose him for nothing) or sign him. And if we sign him, we have an unhappy player playing for us. He is unhappy because he will be coming off the bench for Gobert. Believe it or not you have to take the players thoughts into consideration.
Before you say, "We'll start Kanter and bring Gobert in off the bench." Then Gobert is unhappy and we will be at rist of losing him come FA. Who do we invest in? - Is what it comes down to. Obviously Gobert is a better option for us. Kanter will not want to be here. Yes we can force him too, but thats not what chemistry is about. You have to think about these things. Players are people, there is more than a name and contract that comes into play.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
Gobert and Kanter can coexist with Favors. 30 mins a night. It is more than what they are getting now, but if we got rid of Booker, they could both have that easily.
I don't get the impression that Kanter or Gobert wouldn't do what is best for the team, even if that meant not starting. Matchup should dictate the lineup at a given time. Having Kanter allows for a lot of things offensively that we just don't get with a Favors and Gobert duo--the mixing of the three is where the real weapon is.
Also, while Kanter was upset with how he was being handled under Ty Corbin (lack of attention towards his development, and scapegoated to take pressure off of Ty in a contract year, etc.), Enes has great respect for and communication with Quin. Let's not forget that this was Enes' childhood favorite team, and that he would wake up in the middle of the night to watch Memo and the Jazz. Also, remember how excited he was to spend time with Karl Malone? Remember how many times he has told fans to wear Jazz gear and not another team's? He is an RFA, and as such will have to play the market like Gordon did, but I fully expect him back next year.
Even if we don't see him un our future plans (which I think is way too premature to say, since we drafted Dante the clock has been set back), re-signing him makes all the sense in the world, if only from an assett maxumization standpoint (he is worth more with a deal--even a big one).
I don't get the impression that Kanter or Gobert wouldn't do what is best for the team, even if that meant not starting. Matchup should dictate the lineup at a given time. Having Kanter allows for a lot of things offensively that we just don't get with a Favors and Gobert duo--the mixing of the three is where the real weapon is.
Also, while Kanter was upset with how he was being handled under Ty Corbin (lack of attention towards his development, and scapegoated to take pressure off of Ty in a contract year, etc.), Enes has great respect for and communication with Quin. Let's not forget that this was Enes' childhood favorite team, and that he would wake up in the middle of the night to watch Memo and the Jazz. Also, remember how excited he was to spend time with Karl Malone? Remember how many times he has told fans to wear Jazz gear and not another team's? He is an RFA, and as such will have to play the market like Gordon did, but I fully expect him back next year.
Even if we don't see him un our future plans (which I think is way too premature to say, since we drafted Dante the clock has been set back), re-signing him makes all the sense in the world, if only from an assett maxumization standpoint (he is worth more with a deal--even a big one).
QuinSnydersHair
Well-Known Member
Okay, here's the thing. Who's a legit playoff team that lacks depth and could use Kanter and/or Burke? The only team I could think of is the Clips. The problem is, they have no one to trade back to us to make the salaries work. Maybe Memphis? But I'm not sure they'd trade any of their rotation guys for Burke or Kanter.
'Cause this seems like the most plausible trade scenario. A contending team needs depth and is willing to give up a late 1st for it.
'Cause this seems like the most plausible trade scenario. A contending team needs depth and is willing to give up a late 1st for it.
QuinSnydersHair
Well-Known Member
Do the Mavs still have Felton and/or Nelson? Would you do Kanter to the Mavs (who lost a lot of depth with their Rondo trade) for Felton (who has a player option next year) and a 1st? Right now that would be pick #22. Not bad.
fishonjazz
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**** you man
fishonjazz
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Good suggestion. I don't know if I do it but I would think about it. I don't like felton but the first round pick is nice.
I probably say no
JoelHodgeJr
Well-Known Member
Thats a good question. I think its kinda like the deal for DLee from GS. Yes Affalo would make our backcourt much stronger and hes a solid wing defender with a reliable long ball. I worry though Aaron has only a few good years left and will start to break down just when our core(insert your # here) is reaching there prime growth as a group.
Plus you would need to concider what kind of message that move would send Alec after we just signed his big ext and is now struggeling. The mentality of these guys is very important. Not all were born with the stubborn ftw attitude we saw in MJ, Kobe, Iverson. Some need the kiddie gloves.
All in all I say we keep Kanter. I mean just look at the improvment hes made these last two seasons. Hes a solid big. Hes a guy that can give you 15,10 and has a promising long ball in development. He is in my opinion a pretty rare commodity and since we are still in rebuilding mode its perfect time to retain Kanter and see where his ceiling really is. I think its pretty high.
Keep Kanter!!!
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
i don't think it is fair to say Alec was struggling, because he was playing injured. That injury reached a critical mass that the Jazz were willing to let him take the rest of the season off for surgery and repair. He flourished last year...
I like Burks more than Afflalo at this point. Why trade for Afflalo? He's getting passed around the league at this point.
Not really. He went to Orlando because they wanted to be good, then they decided to rebuild so they traded him. Not like they traded him cuz he sucked.