The reason Obama's citizenship is questioned

[larryselbows]

Pretty much agree with this. I think the Republicans just thought it would be a fairly easy job to make some people question his citizenship in hopes that it would detract some voters. It ended up just turning into a really annoying group of morans who seem to be largely racist, old, and not willing to give it up.

I agree with both of you guys, but I think what the republicans are really insinuating is that 1) Obama doesn't relate to most Americans, it makes it easier to see him as an outsider if he is not an American citizen. 2) That his college transcripts were sub-par and that if he ever reveals them, it will show that he was an international student, which explains why he was able to get into such prestigious schools (being black, not American, etc.).

 

[babe]

I don't think Obama has a true birth certificate to show he was born on US soil, and I believe he grew up in a family and in places where it was not "natural" to have undeviating loyalty to the United States. It was commonly represented to youngsters in our schools that "The President has got to be born in the United States", with the colonies that became states qualifying within that meaning. At least Romney isn't lying about his past. And at least his parents/grandparents were people who, if they lived in Mexico, were certainly believers in the principles proclaimed in our Constitution and other founding documents.

It looks like we have never had a coherent ruling on what "natural born" means in regard to it's usage in our Constitution. But without question it was meant to exclude people born in England and other lands where the love of the liberties claimed by our colonial rebels are held in disrepute, and harboring elitist notions like reverence for the royalty and Lords and Ladies of those foreign realms. That was what we fought to gain independence from. And the oath required to uphold the Constitution was directed at the same threat. Personally, I'd be happy to have a President who's an illegal alien from Mexico, China, India or Russia if he really loved the ideals our Constitution stands for, and fully intends to uphold them.

What most of you peasants don't get is that we have returned to the feudal system, and have lost most of our rights. . . and we are being drawn into the global governance schema most dearly beloved by the Lords of this planet, whereby their ease in management is the highest priority.

Both Mitt and Obama represent essentially the same future. Decreased meaning to what America once stood for in a world of privileged power. . . . decreased meaning for the voice of ordinary people, decreased respect for human rights, and more convenience for the elites.

 

[One Brow]

Sigh...

Yes, because his mother was overseas before and after he was born, he spent his childhood in foreign countries and foreign schools AND HIS FATHER IS KENYAN.

Which, even if Obama had been born in Kenya, would still make him a natural-born US citizen. The lawsuits kcome froma point of fundamental irrationality, and a refusal to acknowledge Obama's legitimacy. It's based on more than the usual partisanship.

 

[One Brow]

Yes, people do whatever they can to win in politics. I already provided many articles questioning McCain's citizenship back in '08. You're telling me if McCain was elected, there would not be a particular contingent of the left that would have continued pursuing that issue?

I'm saying no one would have been drafting lawsuits over it. You certainly wouldn't have seen candidates for the Presidency in '12 talking about it.

 

[One Brow]

One Brow, it's one thing to bring racism to the attention of others who seem blind to it. It's another to only see racism and be blind to everything else. Step back and stop looking down the tunnel.

I agree that you can go too far. On the other hand, mere partisanship does not explain Orly Taitz.

Let's try this one: who are the dark-skinned Republicans who have treated this question legitimately? I agree that you won't find any Democrats. However, if the issue comes strictly from partisanship, surely you can find a column or two from Sowell, a couple of quotes from Cain?

 

[SaltyDawg]

I don't think Obama has a true birth certificate to show he was born on US soil, and I believe he grew up in a family and in places where it was not "natural" to have undeviating loyalty to the United States.

So you think his birth certificate is a fake? And the pictures of him in Hawaii as a kid are fakes? Or are you saying it's not "natural" for people in Hawaii to have undeviating loyalty to the United States?

 

[Stoked]

So you think his birth certificate is a fake? And the pictures of him in Hawaii as a kid are fakes? Or are you saying it's not "natural" for people in Hawaii to have undeviating loyalty to the United States?

Regardless of wether those are fake or not they do not prove anything one way or the other as far as his citizenship.

I am not a birther and think it is a stupid, worthless arguement.

 

[One Brow]

Let's try this one: who are the dark-skinned Republicans who have treated this question legitimately? I agree that you won't find any Democrats. However, if the issue comes strictly from partisanship, surely you can find a column or two from Sowell, a couple of quotes from Cain?

I checked briefly, and learned of one: Alan Keyes, who was spanked, hard, by Obama in the 2004 Illinois Senate race. I didn't find any who lack such an incentive.

 

[SaltyDawg]

Regardless of wether those are fake or not they do not prove anything one way or the other as far as his citizenship.

I am not a birther and think it is a stupid, worthless arguement.

No, his birth certificate proves "he was born on US soil," (aka, a citizen). The pictures of him as a kid in Hawaii show that he didn't grow up in a place "where it was not "natural" to have undeviating loyalty to the United States."

I was responding to babe's post where he said he didn't believe either of those things were true.

 

[Stoked]

No, his birth certificate proves "he was born on US soil," (aka, a citizen). The pictures of him as a kid in Hawaii show that he didn't grow up in a place "where it was not "natural" to have undeviating loyalty to the United States."

I was responding to babe's post where he said he didn't believe either of those things were true.

I never made a comment about his B.C. so to bring that up in response to me makes it look like you think I think he is not a US citizen. He is, no debate and not looking for one.

I have some pics of me in the bahamas as a kid. Doesn't mean anything. You want to prove he lived in Hawaii (he did) then show medical or school records showing he lived there.

He also lived in places out side the US (makes no difference on his eligibility to run for president).

Your arguements in his favor are incomplete and inconclusive. You know that but do not seem to care.

In short: He is a US citizen and your arguements in his defence are as incomplete as the arguements against him.

 

[Hotdog]

I actually talked to Obama's dad one time when I was in Kenya. Good dude. Hates his son. Wouldn't tell me where Obama was born, but didn't mention something about NWO. I didn't have time to find out what it meant.

 

[SaltyDawg]

I never made a comment about his B.C. so to bring that up in response to me makes it look like you think I think he is not a US citizen. He is, no debate and not looking for one.

I have some pics of me in the bahamas as a kid. Doesn't mean anything. You want to prove he lived in Hawaii (he did) then show medical or school records showing he lived there.

He also lived in places out side the US (makes no difference on his eligibility to run for president).

Your arguements in his favor are incomplete and inconclusive. You know that but do not seem to care.

In short: He is a US citizen and your arguements in his defence are as incomplete as the arguements against him.

Are you having trouble reading this or something?

I did not bring up a birth certificate in response to you. Read it again. I quoted the post I was responding to, which was not yours. After you replied, I explained it again. I was responding to babe, not you. And babe DID bring up the birth certificate. He also said he believed Obama "grew up in a family and in places where it was not "natural" to have undeviating loyalty to the United States." That is why I mentioned the childhood pictures of Obama in Hawaii (some of which are school pictures, and some even show him playing basketball on his school's team). And I asked if he thought they were fake, I didn't say they were indisputable proof.

 

[Stoked]

Swear to god I read that twice and saw my name in the quote box eac time. God, anyone have some coffee I can borrow?

I still think your assertion that photos of him in Hawaii are proof that he lived there. That is flimsy to say the least. If he lived there (I believe he did) then there should be soem form of record (medical, school, league sports...something).

 

[SaltyDawg]

Swear to god I read that twice and saw my name in the quote box eac time. God, anyone have some coffee I can borrow?

I still think your assertion that photos of him in Hawaii are proof that he lived there. That is flimsy to say the least. If he lived there (I believe he did) then there should be soem form of record (medical, school, league sports...something).

Yeah there are all kinds of records of him living in Hawaii. Lots of old friends vouch for it too. But pictures of a young Obama playing basketball on his high school team either have to be fakes or they prove he lived there. Babe said he didn't believe he lived in such a place, so I was clarifying if the thought those pictures were fakes or not. Yes, I know it's possible to fake a picture. It's also possible, and very likely, that the pictures of Obama playing basketball for a Hawaiian school are real.

 

[Stoked]

Yeah there are all kinds of records of him living in Hawaii. Lots of old friends vouch for it too. But pictures of a young Obama playing basketball on his high school team either have to be fakes or they prove he lived there. Babe said he didn't believe he lived in such a place, so I was clarifying if the thought those pictures were fakes or not. Yes, I know it's possible to fake a picture. It's also possible, and very likely, that the pictures of Obama playing basketball for a Hawaiian school are real.

True but a picture or even several of them are not what I would use to prove I lived somewhere. You should strengthen your arguement. The bolded part is what you should use as it proves that he did and is stronger than a picture.

 

[The Thriller]

Swear to god I read that twice and saw my name in the quote box eac time. God, anyone have some coffee I can borrow?

I still think your assertion that photos of him in Hawaii are proof that he lived there. That is flimsy to say the least. If he lived there (I believe he did) then there should be soem form of record (medical, school, league sports...something).

Have you even googled this?

If you did you would quickly find a lot of answers to most (if not all) the questions you're asking.

On one hand you say that you aren't a birther yet on the other hand you bring up questions. Then, to make matters worse, you do no research of your own to answer your questions.

So stop acting like you're completely neutral on this. Admit what you are. You're a birther but too ashamed to admit it. So you bring up questions (which could be easily answered with a google search) hoping that no one actually takes the 30 seconds to look them up in hopes that some doubt might be inserted into the argument.

Birthers are nutcakes. Their motive is primarily about racism. No ifs ands or buts.

 

[The Thriller]

True but a picture or even several of them are not what I would use to prove I lived somewhere. You should strengthen your arguement. The bolded part is what you should use as it proves that he did and is stronger than a picture.

It's an amazing tool.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama_citizenship_conspiracy_theories

Belief in the conspiracy theories has persisted despite Obama's pre-election release of his official birth certificate from Hawaii in 2008 additional confirmation by the Hawaii Department of Health based on the original documents,[6] and the April 2011 release of a certified copy of Obama's original Certificate of Live Birth (so-called long-form birth certificate). Other evidence of Obama's Hawaii birth has surfaced such as birth announcements published in August 1961 in two Hawaii newspapers.

One of his high school teachers, who was acquainted with his mother at the time, remembered the day of his birth.[17]

Obama's parents were divorced in 1964. He attended kindergarten in 1966–1967 at Noelani Elementary School in Honolulu.[13][19] In 1967, his mother married Indonesian student Lolo Soetoro,[13] who was also attending the University of Hawaii, and the family moved to Jakarta, Indonesia,[20] where they remained until Obama was ten years old. Obama then returned to Honolulu to live with his maternal grandparents, Madelyn and Stanley Dunham, and has resided continuously in the United States since 1971.

and

Some of his fellow students at Punahou School later told the Honolulu Star-Bulletin that Obama was mature for his age as a high school student and that he sometimes attended parties and other events in order to associate with African American college students and military service people. Reflecting later on his formative years in Honolulu, Obama wrote: "The opportunity that Hawaii offered—to experience a variety of cultures in a climate of mutual respect—became an integral part of my world view, and a basis for the values that I hold most dear.

really folks, it's not that difficult.

Birthers are nutcakes.

 

[One Brow]

On one hand you say that you aren't a birther yet on the other hand you bring up questions. Then, to make matters worse, you do no research of your own to answer your questions.

So stop acting like you're completely neutral on this.

I've read Stoked as being solidly on the side of people who accept the evidence Obama was born in Hawaii, but who has the intellectual capacity and honesty to note that there can be bad arguments for things that are plainly true, and has not been shy about saying what those bad arguments are. You have mis-interpreted him.

 

[Stoked]

I've read Stoked as being solidly on the side of people who accept the evidence Obama was born in Hawaii, but who has the intellectual capacity and honesty to note that there can be bad arguments for things that are plainly true, and has not been shy about saying what those bad arguments are. You have mis-interpreted him.

Thank you One Brow. Times like this make me much more inclined to listen to what you have to say.

 

[One Brow]

Thank you One Brow. Times like this make me much more inclined to listen to what you have to say.

That's very kind of you. I think if we had a quiet discussion on racism with an agreement to not allow our respective feathers to get ruffled, you might agree with me more than you realize.