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This team needs a makeover

Agree to disagree. He surely has had ups and downs, but my take on him (then and now) has been consistent and has been regarding his specific skills that we need, namely: 1. volume three point shooting and 2. rebounding. He doesn’t have to shooting well for either of those to have an impact on the floor. Anything else he brings is gravy. His play this year has shown how much gravy there is.
I dont know what you are disagreeing with exactly. I think everything I stated in that post was pretty objective.

I'm not saying he wouldnt be good on the Jazz. I just don't think he would be as good as he is with the Pelicans. I think it's easy to look at his stats this year and be upset and act like it was a no-brainer decision, it wasn't.
 
I dont know what you are disagreeing with exactly. I think everything I stated in that post was pretty objective.

I'm not saying he wouldnt be good on the Jazz. I just don't think he would be as good as he is with the Pelicans. I think it's easy to look at his stats this year and be upset and act like it was a no-brainer decision, it wasn't.
I think it was a no-brainer decision without this year’s performance considered, and if you go back i was pretty clear on that. If he was on our team averaging 15/8, while getting up 6 threes, it was a no brainer. If he’s doing 13/7.5 while opening up the floor, then it was still worth it. My arguments for him are irrespective of the fact that he’s averaging 19/11 this year. Hence gravy.
 
Also, a no brainer when you look at where we’re at with where I had said — in a tough position to find another offensive threat, still looking for a legit PF, and not having any options that can grab a damn rebound. My argument was that we wouldn’t stumble on this opportunity again.

We haven’t.
 
In the meantime we need defense and effort on a level equal or above tonight's. It'll keep us afloat until we can address some of the mentioned issues.
 
I think it was a no-brainer decision without this year’s performance considered, and if you go back i was pretty clear on that. If he was on our team averaging 15/8, while getting up 6 threes, it was a no brainer. If he’s doing 13/7.5 while opening up the floor, then it was still worth it. My arguments for him are irrespective of the fact that he’s averaging 19/11 this year. Hence gravy.
Yes, but your argument falls apart when it's pretty clear if he played like he did for the Pelicans for 2 months post-trade, the Jazz wouldn't have made the playoffs.

So I don't see how it's gravy when the Jazz would have lost the mashed potatoes.
 
The Jazz trade for Mirotic
Mirotic plays like he does for the Pelicans for the first two months
The Jazz are in the lottery
Jazz fans are calling for DL's head because he traded a lottery pick for an inconsistent PF
 
The Jazz miss the playoffs and they are probably in the 12-14 draft pick range.

Fans would be bitching about missing out on Miles Bridges, SGA, or Michael Porter.

It's easy when you frame it as Allen or Mirotic, but that wouldn't be the case.
 
Yes, but your argument falls apart when it's pretty clear if he played like he did for the Pelicans for 2 months post-trade, the Jazz wouldn't have made the playoffs.

So I don't see how it's gravy when the Jazz would have lost the mashed potatoes.
... maybe? Was he destined to have the same slump if he were to come here? I feel the fit would have been a lot more natural here from a more immediate perspective. Even so, him slumping was 14.6/8.2. But let’s pretend we didn’t make the playoffs: where are we now? What are our odds of retaining him this summer (vs. whatever the hell it is we’re going to do in reality next summer). What’s better in 2-3 years? Does Allen break out? Maybe. Is Favors still on the team?
 
The Jazz miss the playoffs and they are probably in the 12-14 draft pick range.

Fans would be bitching about missing out on Miles Bridges, SGA, or Michael Porter.

It's easy when you frame it as Allen or Mirotic, but that wouldn't be the case.
Separate from my Niko arguments was that our pick was fool’s gold. At best, it was 14-15th (I said that repeatedly). I kept arguing that when Gobert returned we would win too much for that pick to matter. But, sure, some may complain. I wouldn’t. But this plays the hypothetical that we don’t make the playoffs. It also plays the hypothetical that we couldn’t have put protection on it (another debatable thing where everyone would default to “oh there’s no evidence that would have gotten a deal done” or people would default to “dude Stepien rule, we’d be ****ed for future assets to include in trades if we tied up picks!”)
 
Separate from my Niko arguments was that our pick was fool’s gold. At best, it was 14-15th (I said that repeatedly). I kept arguing that when Gobert returned we would win too much for that pick to matter. But, sure, some may complain. I wouldn’t. But this plays the hypothetical that we don’t make the playoffs. It also plays the hypothetical that we couldn’t have put protection on it (another debatable thing where everyone would default to “oh there’s no evidence that would have gotten a deal done” or people would default to “dude Stepien rule, we’d be ****ed for future assets to include in trades if we tied up picks!”)
The Pelicans protected their pick 1-5 in the trade. It goes to reason the Jazz couldn't have protected their pick for lottery and gotten the deal done.
 
Also, if we’re saying that trading for Niko was a no brainer is a conclusion one could only reach with a hindsight bias, it would help to combat that argument without a possible hindsight bias of saying we wouldn’t have made the playoffs.
 
The Pelicans protected their pick 1-5 in the trade. It goes to reason the Jazz couldn't have protected their pick for lottery and gotten the deal done.
They also took back garbage salary, something Chicago said they didn’t want. Chicago was asking for a first rounder, and nobody was biting. We could have closed the deal long before Boogie goes down with an injury. As it stood, Chicago was looking to have to put their tail between their legs on demanding a first rounder. NOP was looking to salary dump and was going to have to offer a first. Remember, they didn’t even want to guarantee Niko’s second year, because even NOP was viewing it as clearing salary, but got the bonus of filling Boogie’s spot.

But, like I said, Niko would fit well enough with them that they may let Boogie walk.
 
icago was asking for a first rounder, and nobody was biting. We could have closed the deal long before Boogie goes down with an injury. As it stood, Chicago was looking to have to put their tail between their legs on demanding a first rounder. NOP was looking to salary dump and was going to have to offer a first. Remember, they didn’t even want to guarantee Niko’s second year, because even NOP was viewing it as clearing salary, but got the bonus of filling Boogie’s spot.
We couldn't close the deal lmao. They could have waited it out for the best deal, like they did. Like every team does.
 
And again, we get Niko we dont make the playoffs and everyone is bitching about how we lost out on SGA, Bridges, or Porter.

That's a guarantee.
 
And again, we get Niko we dont make the playoffs and everyone is bitching about how we lost out on SGA, Bridges, or Porter.

That's a guarantee.
Cool. I’d rather listen to people be bitching about that than have to sit here wondering HTF we’re going to land another offensive option and quality PF.

I know I wouldn’t be bitching about it. That’s also a guarantee.
 
Probably because all the teams they were in contact with said they wouldn't match NOLA's offer.
Well, for argument’s sake, then you’re looking at:

Niko for Favors (expiring) and a top 15 protected pick.

Vs.

Niko + a second rounder for a 2-year salary dump and a top 5 protected pick from a team that was in the playoff picture.

In any case, I give up a 12-14 pick, then and now, and I’m not bitching about it, so I’m not certain why other people bitching about it would be relevant to your argument you’re having with someone who wouldn’t be bitching.
 
grayson allen has desire but he sucks

I never heard of him being the level of high energy, constantly relentless, gritty type those players were known as coming out the draft. Faried was another example and there others who never leaped I'm sure, but it's the draft and happens more often than not.
 
FYI Asik is receiving $11M this year from Chicago. It’s next year that’s only guaranteed at $3M. So yeah. When Chicago does the calculus of getting an expiring deal with a protected first rounder, it’s a lot more appealing than getting garbage salary for a pick from a playoff team, plus having to throw in a second rounder.
 
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