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Thoughts on Trading Bogdanvic

fishonjazz said:
He is basing our entire defensive performance last season on a few games against the clippers I think. Which, who knows if those two games against the clippers were even historically bad (I admittedly haven't done the research) but whatevs
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I assumed that was the case. Pretty extreme cherry-picking of data to fit an objectively false narrative. Even so, if we’re going to fixate on that specific sample, then I’m not sure why we’re fixating on a dude who wasn’t the heart of the problem, worked hard on defense, and actually did a good job.

Glad we have people working overtime to make sure we can’t enjoy good things.
 
NUMBERICA said:
I assumed that was the case. Pretty extreme cherry-picking of data to fit an objectively false narrative. Even so, if we’re going to fixate on that specific sample, then I’m not sure why we’re fixating on a dude who wasn’t the heart of the problem, worked hard on defense, and actually did a good job.

Glad we have people working overtime to make sure we can’t enjoy good things.
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Then you add in the fact that we got rid of worse defenders (niang, favors, etc) and brought in better defenders (paschall, gay, whiteside) and it becomes even more moot than it already was.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
The playoff offense with Bogey on the court was so much better than when he was off the floor. The biggest issue with the defense is the Clips could not miss and we had two guards that were on one leg.

The fact that we were able to score a ton against Denver the year before without Bogey is tough to rely on. Denver is a ****** defensive team. Especially that year… you need every weapon in the playoffs and Bogey is absolutely a weapon. He has also ramped up his defense multiple times. If you are trading bogey and not getting Hayward or Barnes (or someone in that tier of player) then you will likely be worse. RoCo and Gordon and those types have been far worse players than Bogey in the playoffs.
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Bogey's playoff minutes where almost entirely tethered to Mitchell's. And once again, I'm not trying to just pick on Bogey. I think we can be elite on offense if as long as we have Mitchell. We should move one of the scorers, doesn't have to be Bogey, for a defender. There's overwhelming evidence to suggest that we can still be elite without one of the main guys. Two full regular seasons and two playoff series. Bogey just seems like the most obvious scorer to trade if we were to do so.

I guess I'm just being a downer, but the Clippers series did happen and the DEN series before that. We've lost back to back years because we couldn't defend. If you guys want to pretend like that didn't happen or aren't concerned by it, to each their own. But the defense is definitely a concern for me and swapping the backups doesn't inspire much confidence. Scoring without Bogey/Clarkson on the roster? Not a concern at all for me. I think you are vastly underrating the rest of this roster if you concerned about scoring.
 
fishonjazz said:
Then you add in the fact that we got rid of worse defenders (niang, favors, etc) and brought in better defenders (paschall, gay, whiteside) and it becomes even more moot than it already was.
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And the Jazz are trying different schemes so far this year. And players are more engaged defensively on the perimeter.
 
I do find it funny that most here whined and complained that we didn't address perimeter defense after getting torched in the DEN series. Then we got torched again in the LAC series, but it's no longer ok to mention what happened and if you have concerns about it you're just a hater.
 
KqWIN said:
Bogey's playoff minutes where almost entirely tethered to Mitchell's. And once again, I'm not trying to just pick on Bogey. I think we can be elite on offense if as long as we have Mitchell. We should move one of the scorers, doesn't have to be Bogey, for a defender. There's overwhelming evidence to suggest that we can still be elite without one of the main guys. Two full regular seasons and two playoff series. Bogey just seems like the most obvious scorer to trade if we were to do so.

I guess I'm just being a downer, but the Clippers series did happen and the DEN series before that. We've lost back to back years because we couldn't defend. If you guys want to pretend like that didn't happen or aren't concerned by it, to each their own. But the defense is definitely a concern for me and swapping the backups doesn't inspire much confidence. Scoring without Bogey/Clarkson on the roster? Not a concern at all for me. I think you are vastly underrating the rest of this roster if you concerned about scoring.
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The denver series did happen. We lost. Without bogey. Maybe if bogey never had surgery we would be NBA champions.
 
KqWIN said:
I do find it funny that most here whined and complained that we didn't address perimeter defense after getting torched in the DEN series. Then we got torched again in the LAC series, but it's no longer ok to mention what happened and if you have concerns about it you're just a hater.
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Nah bro. Its just that we just had an off season that addressed our post season concerns. Lets see how it shakes out. I really like what the new ownership and GM etc have done. We are the only undefeated team right now. This could just be a good time to be happy with what we got.
 
fishonjazz said:
The denver series did happen. We lost. Without bogey. Maybe if bogey never had surgery we would be NBA champions.
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Maybe we'd be champions if Conley was never hurt and maybe we win this year if things go right. All possible. I think moving some scoring for defense would increase our chances and no it's not just being a hater. We were playing a man down in both the DEN and LAC series. Given that we played elite offense and still lost, I think adding a defender would be more meaningful than another scorer to the mix.

If you're concerned about scoring without Bogey? Agree to disagree. I personally don't see any concern based on how this team has performed in the last couple of years. Same goes with the new additions making a meaningful defensive impact. You can disagree about the extent to which those additions help. It's just so tiring to have your reasoning met with, "you're a hater". It would be very easy for me just dismiss everything against a trade as being a blind homer, but it's not really a productive conversation.
 
KqWIN said:
Given that we played elite offense and still lost, I think adding a defender would be more meaningful than another scorer to the mix.
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Yep. Exactly why we dropped niang and added Gay (and paschall and whiteside). Happiness all around.
 
KqWIN said:
Maybe we'd be champions if Conley was never hurt and maybe we win this year if things go right. All possible. I think moving some scoring for defense would increase our chances and no it's not just being a hater. We were playing a man down in both the DEN and LAC series. Given that we played elite offense and still lost, I think adding a defender would be more meaningful than another scorer to the mix.

If you're concerned about scoring without Bogey? Agree to disagree. I personally don't see any concern based on how this team has performed in the last couple of years. Same goes with the new additions making a meaningful defensive impact. You can disagree about the extent to which those additions help. It's just so tiring to have your reasoning met with, "you're a hater". It would be very easy for me just dismiss everything against a trade as being a blind homer, but it's not really a productive conversation.
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