What's new
By:
Filters

THT bench warmer application thread

Douchebag K said:
It’s a little simplistic to just say “THT benched and now they’re playing so much better”. Like it has nothing to do with the schedule primarily, some injuries, and improvement by a couple of guys. As far as I can see we have had a handful of reasonably interchangable mediocre players who haven’t known what role they were trying to play. If THT hadn’t gotten hurt he’s likely still playing 20 mins and continuing his good play from his last 8-10 games.

The notion that he stopped playing and therefore we started playing is pretty lame. I mean we barely got past Detroit.

Wait till we go 0-4 and then likely 2-10 in the coming games and it’ll be interesting to see who people blame them. The schedule is horrific and I think things will get ugly pretty quickly
Click to expand...

THT was honestly playing fine. I just don't think the combo of Sexton+THT works, it always felt like a situation where you had to pick one or the other....especially if you're dead set on playing Keyonte. Dunn isn't a great player, but he fits what we needed like a glove. THT is just the odd man out.
 
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Should we though? Simone is only 27. He plays the most valuable position. Sign him to a 4 year deal.

It would have to be a guy I was really high on to move Simone.
Click to expand...

I wish he was a better passer, but he has been great for us this year.

Yeah, I'm kind of ok either way. I don't really think we could get anything great for him though, we'll see.
 
Elizah Huge said:
You have every right to have your own wrong opinion.
Click to expand...
That is very kind of you. I love the bull dog in Sexton and the way he busts it on both ends of the floor, even when he is overmatched. I hate the fact that even when his assist numbers are up, he is an enormous drag on the offense because of how much he dribbles and how often he ignores open teammates while trying to do his own thing.
 
Last edited:
Wish I could find lineup data for individual players. I wonder what Markkanen's usage rate is with Dunn on the floor opposed to Horton-Tucker. Might have led to the benching.

In any case, with at least 8 games played, Dunn has a higher net rating in 2 man lineups with the exception of Olynyk, Agbaji, and Sexton. Dunn is positive net rating with 7 of 11 players that fit 8 GP and Horton-Tucker is positive net rating in 5 of 12.

Numbers like that is likely why Dunn is playing over him.
 
Darkwing Duck said:
Wish I could find lineup data for individual players. I wonder what Markkanen's usage rate is with Dunn on the floor opposed to Horton-Tucker. Might have led to the benching.

In any case, with at least 8 games played, Dunn has a higher net rating in 2 man lineups with the exception of Olynyk, Agbaji, and Sexton. Dunn is positive net rating with 7 of 11 players that fit 8 GP and Horton-Tucker is positive net rating in 5 of 12.

Numbers like that is likely why Dunn is playing over him.
Click to expand...

Could be, but then again... if we're trying to win and paying attention to that kind of stuff, Keyonte shouldn't be playing at all.
 
Darkwing Duck said:
Wish I could find lineup data for individual players. I wonder what Markkanen's usage rate is with Dunn on the floor opposed to Horton-Tucker. Might have led to the benching.

In any case, with at least 8 games played, Dunn has a higher net rating in 2 man lineups with the exception of Olynyk, Agbaji, and Sexton. Dunn is positive net rating with 7 of 11 players that fit 8 GP and Horton-Tucker is positive net rating in 5 of 12.

Numbers like that is likely why Dunn is playing over him.
Click to expand...
Lauri usage with Dunn is 2% higher than without him, and with THT its 0.47% lower than without him. Clarkson drops Lauris usage by 1% and Sexton drops it by 0.29%. Keyonte drops it 0.85%.

What is more interesting is if you look at the other way: playing with Lauri causes an increase in JC and Sexton usage while George and Dunn both drop their own by over 3%. THT usage is pretty much unaffected.

Sexton and Clarkson both have usage higher than 27% when they share the court with Lauri. JC is close to 28%.

So using that logic only, THT should not be benched over JC.

Such stats can be found here:
 
HermanG said:
Lauri usage with Dunn is 2% higher than without him, and with THT its 0.47% lower than without him. Clarkson drops Lauris usage by 1% and Sexton drops it by 0.29%. Keyonte drops it 0.85%.
Click to expand...
That is a hilarious stat.

Confirms the eye test – Lauri spaces the floor for Clarkson's dribble-heavy offense (increasing JC's usage) but becomes a spectator in the process. There are certain situations where that's the gamble you need, but it can't be a regular part of the menu.

Keyonte dropping Lauri's usage isn't great. He came out of the gate trying to facilitate and looked like he was quickly forming some chemistry with Markkanen, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside. Maybe Hardy telling him to look for his own shot more is messing with his head.

I'm not at all sure the "throw him into the fire" approach has been a success with Key.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
That is a hilarious stat.

Confirms the eye test – Lauri spaces the floor for Clarkson's dribble-heavy offense (increasing JC's usage) but becomes a spectator in the process. There are certain situations where that's the gamble you need, but it can't be a regular part of the menu.

Keyonte dropping Lauri's usage isn't great. He came out of the gate trying to facilitate and looked like he was quickly forming some chemistry with Markkanen, but that seems to have fallen by the wayside. Maybe Hardy telling him to look for his own shot more is messing with his head.

I'm not at all sure the "throw him into the fire" approach has been a success with Key.
Click to expand...
Caliing out JC is fair, and Sexton also gets the full benefit of better spacing with Lauri and uses it as his usage goes up by 1.58% when he plays with Lauri.

I also agree that when Keyonte started the year facilitating more than shooting it was more beneficial to Lauri, but I also thinks he is largely collateral in that equasion. His own usage drops from 22.6 to 19.2 when he is on the court with Lauri, so he definitely defers more when playing with him. The bigger problem with Keyonte is that he is too quick to defer to Clarkson, who then "does his thing". JC usage with Keyonte goes up by 1.91% and the other two main beneficiaries from Keyonte deferring are Kessler (+2.05%) and Fontecchio (+2.66%). Kessler is a great sighting on that list, but neither JC or Fontecchio should be ahead of Lauri in the "pecking order" of who you pass the ball to.

So if Keyonte wants to be a good NBA level starting PG he needs to understand who the best player is, and prioritize getting him the ball. He defers, but to the wrong guy(s).
 
HermanG said:
JC usage with Keyonte goes up by 1.91% and the other two main beneficiaries from Keyonte deferring are Kessler (+2.05%) and Fontecchio (+2.66%). Kessler is a great sighting on that list, but neither JC or Fontecchio should be ahead of Lauri in the "pecking order" of who you pass the ball to.
Click to expand...

I think Keyonte's just trying to play it safe to not get yanked. It's a lot easier to get the ball to Clarkson, Kessler and Tech – defenses tend to constantly overplay Lauri.

Then again, it doesn't show up in Lauri's usage % if he does receive the ball from Key, surveys the D, realizes he doesn't have a shot or driving lane (which is typical because help defenders are ready to cheat off guys like Kessler) and moves the ball. You need either a FG or FT attempt or a TO to "use" a possession (which is also why Clarkson in particular tends to have an inflated usage when he's on the floor. He takes a lot of shots, gets to the line and turns it over like crazy).

Dunn, though, has clearly realized that feeding Lauri is one of the main things keeping him on the floor.
 
HermanG said:
Caliing out JC is fair, and Sexton also gets the full benefit of better spacing with Lauri and uses it as his usage goes up by 1.58% when he plays with Lauri.

I also agree that when Keyonte started the year facilitating more than shooting it was more beneficial to Lauri, but I also thinks he is largely collateral in that equasion. His own usage drops from 22.6 to 19.2 when he is on the court with Lauri, so he definitely defers more when playing with him. The bigger problem with Keyonte is that he is too quick to defer to Clarkson, who then "does his thing". JC usage with Keyonte goes up by 1.91% and the other two main beneficiaries from Keyonte deferring are Kessler (+2.05%) and Fontecchio (+2.66%). Kessler is a great sighting on that list, but neither JC or Fontecchio should be ahead of Lauri in the "pecking order" of who you pass the ball to.

So if Keyonte wants to be a good NBA level starting PG he needs to understand who the best player is, and prioritize getting him the ball. He defers, but to the wrong guy(s).
Click to expand...
Some of that is dictated by what the defense is doing too. Lauri is the primary target of opposing defenses. Tougher for a young inexperienced guard to get him the ball. Which explains why Dunn drives Lauri's usage up, with his years of experience.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top