Handlogten's Heros
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Yeah you’re crazy
Trade deadline discussion
- Thread starter Jingled
- Start date
I think the reason that the Celtics might be looking to trade Richardson is because of the luxury tax (they're nearly $2.8M over the line). This idea would do nothing for that.
While the Celtics probably have multiple options to get under the threshold, the cleanest fit to do so involving the Jazz would be a Richardson + Nesmith (remember when everyone was sure he was a better prospect than Bane?; apparently the Celtics may be willing to move on from him now, however) for Clarkson swap (of course additional draft assets could be added as needed). No idea if the Celtics are interested in Clarkson, but the financial fit is good for them (not for the Jazz, of course, who would add to their luxury tax).
If there were no draft assets added, I'd probably go for that deal straight up, and hope, while shedding a tear, that the Jazz can find some way to use Joe's contract to reduce the luxury tax.
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Absolute garbage. Better not.
MCarter
Well-Known Member
Give me Marcus Smart, I’m all in. If you were to plug him into Royce’s spot as a starter, that gives us 3 ball handlers at once which is awesome, remember how psyched everyone was when joe was in for Royce and we had that incredible ball movement, except we get his defense with it.
When we want extra defense, we could keep smart on the floor and bring Royce in for someone else.
Royce gets most of his shots as wide open 3s, he isn’t actually that great if defenders are close and he doesn’t take many when they are. I believe Locke said Royce gets more wide open than anyone else in the NBA.
Anyways, if you look at their stats, Smart actually shoots about 38% on wide open shots, so if you were to give him the same shots we give Royce I think our offense would be just fine shooting wise, plus his ball movement could help both Don and Mike get more catch and shoot 3’s which would be great. Smart also guards 1-4 some 5s for a moment now and then. From what I’ve read, they have even used him against the mega star forwards in certain match ups.
Anyways, check out these shot types and tell me that giving him Royce’s wide open catch and shoots would hurt us:
Smart
www.nba.com
Royce
www.nba.com
Also, on Zach Lowe’s podcast it sounded like they thought we could have a shot at Smart with Joe Ingles expiring (and injured) contract plus a first round pick.
I’d do it in a heart beat.
When we want extra defense, we could keep smart on the floor and bring Royce in for someone else.
Royce gets most of his shots as wide open 3s, he isn’t actually that great if defenders are close and he doesn’t take many when they are. I believe Locke said Royce gets more wide open than anyone else in the NBA.
Anyways, if you look at their stats, Smart actually shoots about 38% on wide open shots, so if you were to give him the same shots we give Royce I think our offense would be just fine shooting wise, plus his ball movement could help both Don and Mike get more catch and shoot 3’s which would be great. Smart also guards 1-4 some 5s for a moment now and then. From what I’ve read, they have even used him against the mega star forwards in certain match ups.
Anyways, check out these shot types and tell me that giving him Royce’s wide open catch and shoots would hurt us:
Smart
Marcus Smart | Memphis Grizzlies
Marcus Smart Stats and news - NBA stats and news on Memphis Grizzlies Guard Marcus Smart
Royce
Royce O'Neale | Phoenix Suns
Royce O'Neale Stats and news - NBA stats and news on Phoenix Suns Forward Royce O'Neale
Also, on Zach Lowe’s podcast it sounded like they thought we could have a shot at Smart with Joe Ingles expiring (and injured) contract plus a first round pick.
I’d do it in a heart beat.
Thee Idiotic Minivan K
Well-Known Member
Lowe can go **** himselfGive me Marcus Smart, I’m all in. If you were to plug him into Royce’s spot as a starter, that gives us 3 ball handlers at once which is awesome, remember how psyched everyone was when joe was in for Royce and we had that incredible ball movement, except we get his defense with it.
When we want extra defense, we could keep smart on the floor and bring Royce in for someone else.
Royce gets most of his shots as wide open 3s, he isn’t actually that great if defenders are close and he doesn’t take many when they are. I believe Locke said Royce gets more wide open than anyone else in the NBA.
Anyways, if you look at their stats, Smart actually shoots about 38% on wide open shots, so if you were to give him the same shots we give Royce I think our offense would be just fine shooting wise, plus his ball movement could help both Don and Mike get more catch and shoot 3’s which would be great. Smart also guards 1-4 some 5s for a moment now and then. From what I’ve read, they have even used him against the mega star forwards in certain match ups.
Anyways, check out these shot types and tell me that giving him Royce’s wide open catch and shoots would hurt us:
Smart
Marcus Smart | Memphis Grizzlies
Marcus Smart Stats and news - NBA stats and news on Memphis Grizzlies Guard Marcus Smart
Royce
Royce O'Neale | Phoenix Suns
Royce O'Neale Stats and news - NBA stats and news on Phoenix Suns Forward Royce O'Neale
Also, on Zach Lowe’s podcast it sounded like they thought we could have a shot at Smart with Joe Ingles expiring (and injured) contract plus a first round pick.
I’d do it in a heart beat.
Hmmm ... who to trust?:
Spotrac says the Celtics are $2.77 million over the tax threshold. Bobby Marks a few days ago said they're only about $850,000 over. If Marks is right, then the Celtics probably wouldn't consider this specific scenario.
If you put him on the floor with Conley, Mitchell and Gobert, and give him a focused role, it might work. Risky though.
Joncolton
Well-Known Member
Any trades need to move Royce from our 2nd best defensive player to our 3rd and 4th best defensive player. Not sure Rob Covington does that. That gives us a legit 4 size wise, but I"m not sure they aren't a wash defensively, and maybe Royce is better than Robert.
If we get Smart and Richardson -it's done. Royce is now our 4th best defensive guy and the Jazz move up the D ladder in a big way.
If we get Smart and Richardson -it's done. Royce is now our 4th best defensive guy and the Jazz move up the D ladder in a big way.
I don't really see any possible scenario where we land both Smart and Richardson.
jom2003
Well-Known Member
jazfan23
Well-Known Member
I think Joe’s expiring will be much easier to move now then if he was still healthy ,
FO would have been worried to move a fan fav , now they can do so and he never plays a minute for another team and gets bought out or waived , then stays in Utah to rehab and be around the team
FO would have been worried to move a fan fav , now they can do so and he never plays a minute for another team and gets bought out or waived , then stays in Utah to rehab and be around the team
bobbykilroy
Well-Known Member
Looking at available players the only real improvement to the roster worth making a move for would be Harrison Barnes.
jom2003
Well-Known Member
We won't get Smart and Richardson unless we give them Conley.
With our backcourt being crowded as is, it's best to follow the Toronto model. Their combo guards are undersized Vanvleet and Trent. Neither are known for their defensive prowess, kinda like us. But they don't have to worry about their perimeter D one bit because they more than make up for it with a solid front court combos that excel both in size and athleticism.(Siakam, OG, Barnes and Boucher) We won't be moving Donovan anytime soon. And unless we trade Conley, upgrading our frontcourt(Bogey, Gay, Royce) defensively would be the only way to go.
Handlogten's Heros
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The role I’d give is for him to play for the Knicks.
Jazz aren't trading Conley...at least not right now.
Dumping Ingles' contract into OKC's space, making the pick they owe OKC totally unprotected, getting Kenrich Williams, then trying to be really good until at least 2024 is what feels like a smart way to do a lot of things all at once.
Hopefully they buy him out and then he can still hang out with the team (after getting his permission, of course).
But make no mistake, this team has to figure out how to be a serious playoff team for at least that long and I'm not sure how much more time Bogey and Mike have. Unless the Jazz know they can extend the window beyond 2024, they should not trade any more of their 1sts unless they are highly protected/fake. I think the full-blown rebuild happens in '24 or '25.
Hopefully they buy him out and then he can still hang out with the team (after getting his permission, of course).
But make no mistake, this team has to figure out how to be a serious playoff team for at least that long and I'm not sure how much more time Bogey and Mike have. Unless the Jazz know they can extend the window beyond 2024, they should not trade any more of their 1sts unless they are highly protected/fake. I think the full-blown rebuild happens in '24 or '25.
Everyone seems to think that Roco sucks because he’s not prime Ron Artest. He’s maybe slipped a bit, but he’d be the best defender on our team besides Rudy by a mile. We know how bad the defense is…and yet the thought of trying to improve it with well established great defenders like Roco or Smart gets everyone so queasy.
If you don’t think those are great defenders and/or won’t change the defense, to each their own. But understand you’re rolling the dice again with a team that completely embarrassed 2 years in a row and has only looked worse since then. Don’t complain about the defense if you aren’t willing to put serious chips on the board to try and fix it. We’re gonna regret trading Bogey….or we’re gonna regret giving up a 2028 pick. Yeah, maybe. But it’s highly likely we’re going to regret wasting this opportunity too. This team isn’t worth preserving. Horribly imbalanced roster.
As bad as things are right now, this is still likely the best chance to win the title in decades. Having Mitchell+Gobert on the same roster is incredibly rare and we don’t know how long that will last. It could seriously end this summer for all we know. There is no rebuilding, the time is now. The entire rotation is old outside of Don and you can’t flip everyone to extend that window. Even if you could, how long until Don demands out? He’s not waiting for another cycle of young players to develop. It’s all in right now.
If you don’t think those are great defenders and/or won’t change the defense, to each their own. But understand you’re rolling the dice again with a team that completely embarrassed 2 years in a row and has only looked worse since then. Don’t complain about the defense if you aren’t willing to put serious chips on the board to try and fix it. We’re gonna regret trading Bogey….or we’re gonna regret giving up a 2028 pick. Yeah, maybe. But it’s highly likely we’re going to regret wasting this opportunity too. This team isn’t worth preserving. Horribly imbalanced roster.
As bad as things are right now, this is still likely the best chance to win the title in decades. Having Mitchell+Gobert on the same roster is incredibly rare and we don’t know how long that will last. It could seriously end this summer for all we know. There is no rebuilding, the time is now. The entire rotation is old outside of Don and you can’t flip everyone to extend that window. Even if you could, how long until Don demands out? He’s not waiting for another cycle of young players to develop. It’s all in right now.
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I'd be fine with adding Roco, but I definitely don't think he's worth a first round pick, especially considering he's on an expiring contract.
Roco was just traded for two first round picks. He obviously had more years on his deal at the time, but that caliber of player is able to yield a first round pick time and time again…even as a rental. Roco is the mostly highly valued type of role player in the league.
2028 might as well not exist to me. We won’t be contenders by then and I’m not expecting to have a better Jazz team in decades. Protect the pick and get the deal done if it’s available. The chances of that pick contributing more to contending team is extremely slim.
Teams tank year after year to have stars like Rudy and Don on the same team and they aren’t even guaranteed to get one. I don’t think people recognize how special the position we are is. I’m using everything on the team with Rudy and Don on it because there’s no guarantee that it will last much longer and who knows when we’ll get a team this good again.