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Trade deadline discussion

Ujfanatic said:
So I've been thinking about this leadership issue all morning. Leaders need the right combination of talent and charisma. Donovan has both, but I am worried he is checking out on this organization. The damage started with the Rudy/COVID situation and was made much worse following the social backlash to Black Lives Matter/George Floyd murder. The collapses in each of the last two playoffs obviously didn't help things, but I actually think the nail in the coffin may have been the all-start team selection last year. The Jazz were playing amazing basketball leading into the all-star break - undoubtedly one of the best stretches in franchise history. And despite that he and Rudy were the last players picked for all-star teams. I think LeBron did that very strategically and I think it bothered Donovan.

I see Donovan as someone who very much wants to sit at the "cool kids table", and LeBron is the leader of the NBA Cool Kids. Rudy is clearly rejected from that club and sits at the "Freaks and Geeks table". During Donovan's rookie year all the "cool kids" were welcoming him into the league and accepting him as one of their own. Now, it feels like he either needs to sit with Rudy at the geek table or distance himself and eventually make the leap.

One of the reasons many of us love Giannis so much is that he decidedly doesn't care about the Cool Kids table. I actually think Steph is the same. I think Donovan does care, and while I wish that wasn't the case I can't blame him either. Social dynamics have a major influence on most of us.

I am more and more coming to the conclusion that Donovan and Rudy may not work together due to off-the-court issues. Trading Rudy makes us a lottery team. If, however, we could trade Donovan for another star that doesn't care about the Cool Kids table maybe we have a chance to fix the locker room issues and get back on track. The player I have thinking about this morning; Dame Lillard. His age fits the timeline of the rest of our roster much better, he has also actively rejected overtures to join the Cool Kids, already has a connection to Utah, and desperately wants to win a championship now.
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I think you are 100% correct with your analysis. I do think Donovan wants to be an exposure type player. A "cool kid" as you called it. And I think Rudy is in that other category.

I think the main area where I disagree is the other stars you mentioned. Those guys like Giannis or Dame or Steph have their teams. It's built around them. They call the shots. Here, that isn't the case. We cater to Rudy. We build everything around Rudy.

Donovan could be a "cool kid" and take us places, but we don't know other than playoff performances. People on here have been bitching about Quin all day because they are starting to realize he doesn't know how to adapt. We are only built to win around Rudy. The funnel system. That has to bug Donovan. It would bug any young star in the league (Brown, etc) especially considering how Donovan has carried us in the playoffs.

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For those wondering, the Jazz owe a top-6 protected pick to Memphis this year and the Jazz still have a good record so there is no upside to blowing it up mid-season.
 
NUMBERICA said:
For those wondering, the Jazz owe a top-6 protected pick to Memphis this year and the Jazz still have a good record so there is no upside to blowing it up mid-season.
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Also owe a 2024 pick to OKC... think its top 10 protected... another thing to consider when you throw in a first when putting together fake trades.
 
NUMBERICA said:
Not with how many lightly-protected picks the Jazz owe.

I might be partial to it otherwise, but it simply doesn't make sense.
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I want substantial change, but I want to stay competitive. I'm okay if we go .500 the rest of the regular season if it means we get more balance and long term options.

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NUMBERICA said:
Not with how many lightly-protected picks the Jazz owe.

I might be partial to it otherwise, but it simply doesn't make sense.
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Its also why I'm not putting a pick in a deal unless its for Smart... who may change our culture... or burn us to the ground. I'm also only doing that deal if we can send JC in it... which likely isn't good enough.

So I'm likely thinking we should go the route of send out JC for expiring money or a different player with longer money. That may not happen but I think JC likely still has some trade value... like I've considered a trade of JC for Bertans if we can get a pick (he's out of the rotation in Washington and I think the coach hates him). There aren't a ton of bad contracts in that range that I think we could swap.

Then you play out the year... make Quin use all the motivation bullets he has and in the offseason you make the big trades and find a new coach. Likely stay as a playoff team and then hit the rebuild button in 2024 by clearing house.
 
LoPo said:
Blaming JC, Joe or Royce for our issues is foolish.

There are 4 people to blame:

Quin - seems inconsistent yet unwilling to think outside his own box

Rudy - sure he's a hard worker, but I don't think he's a guy who really motivates his teammates. They respect him but also seem annoyed by him. I think his comments to the media maybe have finally taken their toll

Conley - he was brought in to be our missing piece and provide savvy vet leadership. I don't see **** from him other than being a great guy and solid player

Don - playoff superstar who has to find a way to carry this team in the regular season like he has in the playoffs. His effort is not enough.

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To me Conley the player is a perfect representation of the Jazz as a team. Good, but not good enough. I mean Phoenix pulled pretty much the same move for Chris Paul. Except Chris Paul is a good enough player and MVP candidate at his best. He is the leader who will take over games in ways that Conley never could. We don't have guys that can push us to the top. We are too “nice”
 
NUMBERICA said:
For those wondering, the Jazz owe a top-6 protected pick to Memphis this year and the Jazz still have a good record so there is no upside to blowing it up mid-season.
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Trading guys for picks and nothing else in return is blowing it up. But trading guys for same caliber players with different skillets isn't. Like DM for Jaylen Brown/Ben Simmons. Bogey for Jerami Grant. Clarkson/Jingles for Josh Hart/Smart/Boucher. Etc. There are trades out there that can help shakeup the roster while still keeping us competitive. And honestly it's the best way for us moving forward. This current team will take us nowhere
 
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jom2003 said:
To me Conley the player is a perfect representation of the Jazz as a team. Good, but not good enough. I mean Phoenix pulled pretty much the same move for Chris Paul. Except Chris Paul is a good enough player and MVP candidate at his best. He is the leader who will take over games in ways that Conley never could. We don't have guys that can push us to the top. We are too “nice”
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This... I love Mike... but zero technicals in his career... none. There is nice guy and there is too non-confrontational.

Like have we had one "players only" meeting. They are kinda cheesy but they show some leadership... some desire... some communication... and some ability to confront issues and have hard conversations. We are soft.
 
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