Trade deadline discussion

[FalseFlagg K]

To me Conley the player is a perfect representation of the Jazz as a team. Good, but not good enough. I mean Phoenix pulled pretty much the same move for Chris Paul. Except Chris Paul is a good enough player and MVP candidate at his best. He is the leader who will take over games in ways that Conley never could. We don't have guys that can push us to the top. We are too “nice”

you haven't learned from your evisceration about Mike Conley have you ? How you can keep giving an opinion is pretty impressive, the lack of self awareness is staggering

 

[FalseFlagg K]

This belief is facilitated by the fact that Quin’s system, when exploited, puts him in no-man’s land. It’s the same reason why “Rudy Gobert can’t be on the floor in the playoffs” persisted for months after our playoff loss. And I’m not talking about nationally (that’s been out since forever) I’m talking about among our fan base and amongst almost everyone on this very forum. It’s a Quin thing and I said previously that we continue to watch Rudy get nailed to Quin’s cross. If you counter by not relying on the entire defense to be Gobert, then he’s at the very least Ben Simmons. But since Quin has based his entire defensive system for years on ceding certain shots and training a defense to do things that are nearly indistinguishable from being lazy, it of course is going to look like Rudy can’t survive outside the middle.

So before we throw away possibly the best defender ever, it might make some sense to fire the MF who keeps putting us in these situations. Just a thought.

ehhh.. Rudy is probably also our best perimeter defender tbh. I have no idea what this guy is talking about

 

[LoPo]

His name was Jae Crowder

We should have never made the Grizzlies trade which included Jae. We should have said take Favors or no deal. We still could have used some cap maneuvers to sign Bojan.

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[Handlogten's Heros]

This belief is facilitated by the fact that Quin’s system, when exploited, puts him in no-man’s land. It’s the same reason why “Rudy Gobert can’t be on the floor in the playoffs” persisted for months after our playoff loss. And I’m not talking about nationally (that’s been out since forever) I’m talking about among our fan base and amongst almost everyone on this very forum. It’s a Quin thing and I said previously that we continue to watch Rudy get nailed to Quin’s cross. If you counter by not relying on the entire defense to be Gobert, then he’s at the very least Ben Simmons. But since Quin has based his entire defensive system for years on ceding certain shots and training a defense to do things that are nearly indistinguishable from being lazy, it of course is going to look like Rudy can’t survive outside the middle.

So before we throw away possibly the best defender ever, it might make some sense to fire the MF who keeps putting us in these situations. Just a thought.

Rudy is less effective when not by the rim, but your point stands. Its the fact that he can be game planned around in the playoffs by certain teams that gives some pause. He is good on the perimeter... he can switch... the rest of the defense is BBQ if he is outside the paint.

It is partly the system... it is partly the player limitations. Locke basically said that Quin is looking for every way to help the perimeter guys survive because they flat out can't defend. So then the convo goes to Rudy needs to punish the teams on the other end... yada yada... its a chicken egg thing.

I just wonder if we didn't swing completely away from defensive only players to offensive only players if we would have figured out a balance that is more consistent across multiple matchups... Like Phoenix... nothing gimmicky... nothing goofy... just a good ****ing basketball team on both sides of the court. All their main guys give value on both sides of the court. Like can Donovan go supernova in the playoffs and can we have more normal players between him and Rudy and still be elite... or do we have to have this gimmicky **** on both sides of the ball to work. Like if you flipped Mike for Marcus Smart or Bojan for Jae do you lose what makes you special on offense? Does it go so far that the defensive gains are lost? Do we lose some games to ****** teams during the regular season because we don't run these gimmicks? Or are these gimmicks what takes so-so talent to a solid playoff team?

I don't really know the answers here... if Donovan goes supernova when we had the Jae/Ricky teams are we able to beat the Rockets? That is the most "normal" we have been and that lineup was the **** in regular season but then no one was able to make shots in that series.

 

[Cptgrnlngs22]

Been bored so I put together this 4 team trade. Saves the Jazz just under a mil this season but costs is the last of our picks.

Outgoing salaries and assets

(Jazz) - Ingles, Clarkson, O’Neal, Butler, Mem ‘22 2nd rnd pick, ‘26 1st rnd pick

(Mavericks) - TPE (Richardson), 2024 1st rnd pick

(Pistons) - Grant

(Celtics) - Smart, Richardson

Incoming salaries and assets

(Jazz) - Grant, Smart

(Mavericks) - O’Neal

(Pistons) - Richardson, Butler, Mavs 2024 1st rnd pick, Mem 2022 2nd rnd pick

(Celtics) - Ingles, Clarkson, Jazz 2026 1st rnd pick



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[LoPo]

Trading Rudy would shock the world. Nobody would see it coming. It would be a bold move but likely the right one when we look back in 2 or 3 years.

Atlanta offered Collins, Reddish and a great 1st for Ben Simmons. What would they offer for Rudy? Now that Reddish is gone, would they throw in Hunter? Another 1st? We could get Collins, Bogdon Bogdonovic and draft picks for Rudy.

We wait too damn long to make trades. We lose all value for guys then sell for pennies on the dollar. If we traded Rudy and Conley right now, we get top dollar for them. We still make the playoffs this year and have a younger, more athletic team to arguably have have better chance of troubling our playoff opponents.

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[LoPo]

Trading Rudy would shock the world. Nobody would see it coming. It would be a bold move but likely the right one when we look back in 2 or 3 years.

Atlanta offered Collins, Reddish and a great 1st for Ben Simmons. What would they offer for Rudy? Now that Reddish is gone, would they throw in Hunter? Another 1st? We could get Collins, Bogdon Bogdonovic and draft picks for Rudy.

We wait too damn long to make trades. We lose all value for guys then sell for pennies on the dollar. If we traded Rudy and Conley right now, we get top dollar for them. We still make the playoffs this year and have a younger, more athletic team to arguably have have better chance of troubling our playoff opponents.

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Even as I read what I wrote I don't like this. But its an Ainge type move. And maybe a blessing in disguise.

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[jom2003]

This belief is facilitated by the fact that Quin’s system, when exploited, puts him in no-man’s land. It’s the same reason why “Rudy Gobert can’t be on the floor in the playoffs” persisted for months after our playoff loss. And I’m not talking about nationally (that’s been out since forever) I’m talking about among our fan base and amongst almost everyone on this very forum. It’s a Quin thing and I said previously that we continue to watch Rudy get nailed to Quin’s cross. If you counter by not relying on the entire defense to be Gobert, then he’s at the very least Ben Simmons. But since Quin has based his entire defensive system for years on ceding certain shots and training a defense to do things that are nearly indistinguishable from being lazy, it of course is going to look like Rudy can’t survive outside the middle.

So before we throw away possibly the best defender ever, it might make some sense to fire the MF who keeps putting us in these situations. Just a thought.

i mean could you imagine what we would look like if we surround Rudy with size, athleticism and actual nba-all-defense level talent? like Roco, Mikal Bridges, PJ Tucker, Dort, Melton, Smart, etc?

still mind-boggling to me that the best defensive help we've ever gotten for Rudy is a 6'4 PF Royce O'neale who received like a total of 10 nba-all-defense votes in his career

 

[jom2003]

Been bored so I put together this 4 team trade. Saves the Jazz just under a mil this season but costs is the last of our picks.

Outgoing salaries and assets

(Jazz) - Ingles, Clarkson, O’Neal, Butler, Mem ‘22 2nd rnd pick, ‘26 1st rnd pick

(Mavericks) - TPE (Richardson), 2024 1st rnd pick

(Pistons) - Grant

(Celtics) - Smart, Richardson

Incoming salaries and assets

(Jazz) - Grant, Smart

(Mavericks) - O’Neal

(Pistons) - Richardson, Butler, Mavs 2024 1st rnd pick, Mem 2022 2nd rnd pick

(Celtics) - Ingles, Clarkson, Jazz 2026 1st rnd pick



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to get grant you need to give up Bogey. even then it might not be enough

 

[LoPo]

i mean could you imagine what we would look like if we surround Rudy with size, athleticism and actual nba-all-defense level talent? like Roco, Mikal Bridges, PJ Tucker, Dort, Melton, Smart, etc?

still mind-boggling to me that the best defensive help we've ever got for Rudy is a 6'4 PF Royce O'neale who received like 10 nba-all-defense votes at his very best

Rudy was surrounded by Jae, Rubio, a damn good Joe Ingles, Favors and Royce but it still took rookie Donovan to make things happen.

Rudy is an amazing player, but not a centerpiece.

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[LogGrad98]

Rudy was surrounded by Jae, Rubio, a damn good Joe Ingles, Favors and Royce but it still took rookie Donovan to make things happen.

Rudy is an amazing player, but not a centerpiece.

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Both Donovan and Rudy are much better now than they were then. How much would that make a difference? Hard to say.

 

[jom2003]

Rudy was surrounded by Jae, Rubio, a damn good Joe Ingles, Favors and Royce but it still took rookie Donovan to make things happen.

Rudy is an amazing player, but not a centerpiece.

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Are Jae, Rubio, Jingles, Favors and Royce nba-all-defense level talents? I don't think so.

Jae plays with a lot toughness. but he's undersized for a PF and isn't exactly a standout athlete, just like Royce.

Bricky Ricky was a plus defender, kind of like Conley. But he's got his limitation and lost a step after suffering a major injury in his t'wolves days.

Favs was a 25 year old with a 35 year old body after injuring his legs. Last season we saw the old man could barely jump.

Jingles in his prime was probably our best defender behind Rudy. But he's always been limited physically and struggle against size and athleticism.

And honestly, defense wasn't a problem for Jae/Rubio/prime Jingles/Favs, the offense was.

That's why I mentioned guys like Roco, Bridges, Tucker, Dort, Smart. These guys either shoot a good percentage from deep, or are capable shot creators who won't hurt your offense. Really should've gone for these guys, instead of going a full 180 in 2019.