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Trade deadline discussion

campaignist said:
Some part of me thinks he'll ship Ingles because he's an expiring, and Ainge wants to make a statement. But I won't be shocked either way.
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We are also deep in the tax this year and staring down the repeater tax if we trade Joe for a guy with a multi year deal… I know I know it’s Ryan’s money but remember we also traded like 300k of Tucker and used a second rounder to do so… so money factors in to these things under old and new ownership. I think it’s likely that if we trade for a multi year contract that JC is the player that absolutely could be moved.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
We are also deep in the tax this year and staring down the repeater tax if we trade Joe for a guy with a multi year deal… I know I know it’s Ryan’s money but remember we also traded like 300k of Tucker and used a second rounder to do so… so money factors in to these things under old and new ownership. I think it’s likely that if we trade for a multi year contract that JC is the player that absolutely could be moved.
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That’s a good point.
 
mongoose01 said:
Facts are facts… I haven’t watched a Jazz game all year. It was clearly the wrong move all along. We’re how many years into it now? We can judge how smart DA is by whether he gets rid of Conley or not.


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All of the facts work against the anti-Conley BS… but if you haven’t watched a game all year I don’t expect you to understand
 
mongoose01 said:
Facts are facts… I haven’t watched a Jazz game all year. It was clearly the wrong move all along. We’re how many years into it now? We can judge how smart DA is by whether he gets rid of Conley or not.


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Mike has been absolutely terrific the past two seasons. No way in hell he gets traded this season.
 
Jingled said:
Mike has been absolutely terrific the past two seasons. No way in hell he gets traded this season.
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Did he grow 6 inches? Is he somehow good at perimeter defense now, because that’s what we’ve needed. Joe can do everything Conley can do- except better. People want to trade Joe? Doesn’t make any sense to me…


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mongoose01 said:
Did he grow 6 inches? Is he somehow good at perimeter defense now, because that’s what we’ve needed. Joe can do everything Conley can do- except better. People want to trade Joe? Doesn’t make any sense to me…


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You really haven’t watched in a while.
 
idiot said:
When you say something like this, you need to explain why and demonstrate to whom he'd be valuable.

This idea that expirings are valuable made sense when most teams were positioned to be players in the free agent market. But free agency hasn't been where it's at for acquiring players for the past couple of years in most cases.

So I'd like to know specifically which teams would find an expiring contract valuable (and then perhaps what they'd be willing to give up to make that happen).
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Most teams in the league are over the cap and therefore they have limited flexibility. I think only 4 or 5 were under the cap just 1 week into free agency.

Being flexible when other teams aren't is a big deal if so few are under the cap.
 
The Jazz Wonderbra said:
Most teams in the league are over the cap and therefore they have limited flexibility. I think only 4 or 5 were under the cap just 1 week into free agency.

Being flexible when other teams aren't is a big deal if so few are under the cap.
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Yes, I understand the theory behind this. And I know there was a time a few years ago when having this kind of flexibility was a big deal. But in more recent years, this has been a less important strategy for player acquisition, if I'm understanding the league's financial landscape correctly. Most teams with aspirations these days have figured out ways to find players while operating over the cap. And those operating under the cap usually don't have big expectations for free agency.

That's why I'm asking for specific teams that would benefit from having Ingles's expiring salary (enough to give us a piece that's more useful than Ingles) to be identified. It's possible there are a few, but I doubt there are many.

I'm thinking perhaps a team like Cleveland would be willing to trade Sexton (plus salary filler) for Ingles, since they may not want to pay his salary increase going forward. But that doesn't benefit the Jazz. Maybe Reddish from the Hawks might be in a similar situation? But I'm pretty certain the Hawks would want a first-rounder for Reddish, and it's doubtful that Reddish instead of Ingles would strengthen our title chances this year.
 
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Handlogten's Heros said:
All of the facts work against the anti-Conley BS… but if you haven’t watched a game all year I don’t expect you to understand
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REGULAR SEASON

How many games has Conley missed in the playoffs when we could have used him? Even when we do have him, don't we have a better post season record without Conley than with him?

If he's 100%, I still don't think he's the right 3rd piece next to Rudy and Don.

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Handlogten's Heros said:
Conley is very important to this team in the regular season and playoffs. If you are trading him it’s because you have decided you aren’t a contender or you got an offer that is stupid good.

If Joe or JC… and the way Joe has looked lately it feels like keeping JC for the playoffs is a better deal. I think JC makes more sense in some situations and especially considering our cap and repeater tax stuff.
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I remember about 3 weeks to a month ago when JC was just playing horrible and at his lowest point. I gave some great quality control advice saying JC needed to stop hunting 3’s and attack the basket more. I feel he’s damn near unstoppable in the paint, hell he’s our best post player. He’s doing what I said and doing so much better. Between him and Mitchell, the jazz are putting extreme pressure on opposing perimeter defenders leaving , Mitchell, Conley, and Bogey open at the three point line. And since JC’s adjustment the entire offense has changed. I don’t know what the numbers bare out but according to my eye test, the Jazz are shooting less threes and scoring more in the paint. And it’s working great. You don’t trade JC I didn’t want him traded a month ago, and now he’s proving me right. As he continues to do this his 3pt shot will gradually come around. It’s time to stop putting him on the chopping block.
Saint Cy of JFC said:
Lopo came back just to spout more Anti-Conley ********
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Let’s be honest, LoPo is happier the bigger the trade is, and Conley is the highest trade chip we have that has any realistic chance of being traded, that’s why he wants him traded.
LoPo said:
REGULAR SEASON

How many games has Conley missed in the playoffs when we could have used him? Even when we do have him, don't we have a better post season record without Conley than with him?

If he's 100%, I still don't think he's the right 3rd piece next to Rudy and Don.

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Idiot, just shut yer trap hole!!!
 
Facing the Warriors tonight gave me a thought: maybe the idea isn't to think about what the roster needs in general, but what is needed to beat the teams that will be in the way of a title run:

Warriors (with Klay)
Phoenix
Clippers if Kawhi is back, which may or may not be likely
Not going to think about the East yet

-Theoretically, Gay will help against the Clips if they go small, and in general. This is where one more athlete/perimeter defender comes in. The question is, how good do they need to be? And therefore, how much
value would need to be given up?
-Phoenix, I think, is actually a good matchup. The two teams are actually somewhat similar roster wise (Ayton/Paul/Booker are analogues to Gobert/Conley/Booker, regardless of talent levels.) My concern is that they're better on
perimeter d. So the question would be, are Gay, Ingles, and Royce going to be enough? I'd think Gay could attack Jae Crowder a bit, which would help. I expect to CP3 to light us up per usual unless a major lockdown defender is obtained.
-GSW....your guess is as good as mine.

So if we're spitballing whether Grant, Barnes, Smart, etc. are available, and if it would cost Ingles, JC, picks, etc. would be worth it. If you're just sizing up those three teams, I'm not even sure Grant and Barnes are the best targets. Clips and GSW, maybe.
 
It would be better to look for the big splash moves during the off-season. Do any huge trades now and the jazz run the risk of taking themselves out of contention. What the jazz should be doing is finding guys like Hart. This takes away some mins from Ingles or O’Neale or both, which would be a good thing and give us a more reliable player for when Conley sits on a back to back game. Or if there is an injury to Don or Conley.
 
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