Transgender and sports
- Thread starter Beer
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Humm, I wonder where I got the idea that many people view transgender people as pretending to be a different gender for some sort of advantage. The idea that transgender people are lying and/or tricking people into accepting their fake gender identity.
I wonder why I have made that argument, that transgender people are not just in drag and not just "pretending" to be something so adamantly.
I've been told over and over and over that no one thinks that transgender people are lying or faking or using their gender identity as a trick. And then this pile of **** gets posted as if this is a representation of the issue.
How many transgender people will suffer violent attacks and or be killed because of this funny clip? I'm guessing the answer is who cares?
Avery
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It was supposed to be a lighthearted joke to a conversation charged with emotion, but fair point.
Of course it’s an issue more deeply rooted than a South Park video.
fishonjazz
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What it did for me is make me no longer want to be part of the discussion.
That is a nice take on it. I really dont care what I am called and felt no need to put that stuff. But I guess it does help people who do want to put it feel more comfortable, plus I guess it helps them feel like or know they have an ally.
Al-O-Meter
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Non-imaginary violent attacks? None. Zero. There have been absolutely no violent attacks on transgender athletes since that clip has come out. However that story was centered on the mixed feeling people had toward transgender athletes dominating biological women in women's sports. The Macho Man character was modeled on the transgender High School Connecticut track athletes who took no testosterone suppressing medication. One of them even made the glib comment their competitors should work harder rather than complain or worry about what medications they weren't taking.
The question that episode raised was "does being acceptive and supportive of the trans community require that you support what the High School Connecticut track athletes were doing?" It is a valid question and one I think a lot of people are wrestling with. Your approach here by insinuating that by merely asking a question about there being a line between being compassionate towards the trans individuals and not feeling right about watching those Connecticut track athletes destroy their competition, as the South Park creators did in that episode, is the same as fostering violent attacks on trans athletes is little better than One Brow's. It might even be worse. All One Brow is doing is calling people a bigot. You are assigning responsibility for imaginary violent attacks on these trans athletes.
Back atcha.
Was that supposed to discourage me? Basic human dignity should never be a matter of discussion, it should be a given.
It's a joke that leans hard into a harmful stereotype, punching down on an oppressed class. It's not better than making jokes based on race or gender.
Because only athletes matter? I really wonder how carefully you think about what you said sometimes. It really comes out callous, and almost inhuman, when you go places like this.
What's your source for that tidbit?
Connecticut Transgender Policy Found to Violate Title IX
A Connecticut policy that allows transgender athletes to compete in girls sports violates the civil rights of female athletes, the U.S. Education Department’s Office for Civil Rights has ruled. The ruling, which was obtained Thursday by The Associated Press, comes in response to a complaint...
www.nbcconnecticut.com
Really, your ugliness here has no lower limit, apparently. There is no lie too shallow, too easily disproved that you would be reluctant to spread it.
@Avery , this is one reason why including such videos is harmful, however funny you think they are.
@Gameface , I guess I will have to step up my game if you are somehow worse than me.
This is why you're not worth engaging.
I didn't ****ing say transgender athletes. Okay?
You've also clearly have not read my last half dozen posts in this thread or else you'd know that the stupid response you typed is just that, stupid as ****.
You snipped my post and took out the part that matters most. That although I'm met with denial after denial that the perception is that trans people in general but especially the athletes (which probably makes up an absolutely tiny percentage of the trans population) are faking their gender. That clip obviously shows a person who simply announced their gender identity but who is not actually personally identifying as that gender.
Transgender people get murdered at a rate that is astronomically higher than any other population in the U.S. So GFYS with your smug little attitude.
Fatal Violence Against the Transgender and Gender Expansive Community in 2021
As HRC continues to work toward justice and equality for transgender and gender-expansive people, we mourn those we have lost.
This. The "joke" isn't funny unless you think transgender athletes are pretending to be female so that they can win at sports. It's so ****ing absurd in every way, yet it seems people really think this is happening on a significant enough scale to garner our attention and outrage.
You're a valuable and likable poster. Perhaps you should put this guy on ignore, for your own sake. He's not worth you getting upset.
agreed. I've made an effort to not have any posters on ignore, but I really gain nothing from AI. He's yet to say anything that has helped me better understand an issue and there are others that help me understand his general point of view better than he does.
Transgender people over four times more likely than cisgender people to be victims of violent crime
williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu
Dehumanizing and delegitimizing transgender identity absolutely contributes to this.
Al-O-Meter
Well-Known Member
That was what the episode you were commenting on was about. Don't tell me you haven't seen the episode and were voicing an uninformed strong opinion as a basis for assigning responsibility for violent attacks.
Are you sure about that? There is a very good reason the article you linked to didn't use the term "murder" in the claim made in the tag line. Advocates use the same trick for making claims that anti-gun advocates use. Suicides can be counted as violent deaths and even homicides but they don't count as murders. If your statistics cite 'violent deaths' rather than 'murders' then it includes suicides. Unlike your earlier comment on the South Park episode I suspect was made in ignorance, I'm thinking you may know the answer to this question: How does the suicide rate in the trans community compare to the suicide rate of the general population? Is it "astronomically higher"?
You made the claim that transgender people are MURDERED at a rate that is astronomically higher than any other population in the United States. Prove it. I'll help you with some denominators. As I posted earlier, roughly 21% of Gen Z identifies as LGBT. Roughly 14% of Gen Z identifies as Black so LGBT is a 50% larger demographic, and if proportionally victimized at the same rate should have a murder rate 50% higher than Black Americans. Just shy of 10,000 Black Americans were murdered during the 366 days of 2020. Those aren't imaginary murders and those Black lives matter.
The truth advocates try to distract from is that most people who meet these unfortunate ends are mostly commonly killed by people very much like themselves. White homicide victims are usually killed by White perpetrators. Black homicide victims are most often killed by Black perpetrators. Transgender homicide victims are usually killed by Transgender perpetrators but sadly with that group the homicide victim and the perpetrator are most often the same person. You are playing games with terms and statistics to shame people from voicing an opinion you don't want to hear. I stand by my earlier statement of that South Park episode, which I have seen and believed did a good job of examining this issue through the eyes of PC Principal, has not resulted in any violent attacks or murders. I think you were spouting ignorance.
Gender Identity Disparities in Criminal Victimization
williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu
Trans people are four times more likely to be the victim of a violent crime than cis people. Perhaps you're the special sort of person who thinks that the violent crime rate and the murder rate are not connected.
However, there are a dearth of studies looking at the murder rate of trans people. I can only find one, in 2017, and it's estimate range was apparently between 1/7 as likely and four times more likely, for trans people generally, while almost certainly more likely for trans women of color.
I deleted all your blame-the-victim JAQoffery. It wasn't even worth rebutting, it was that stupid.
Al-O-Meter
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Black people are eight times more likely to be murdered than White people. Gameface said the rate for transgender victimhood was astronomically higher than any other group of people. That is only true if you don't consider Black Americans to be people. I know that's not you One Brow. I know you are a scrapper and Gameface is your boy but this is not the hill. Do not put yourself in the position of downplaying the sad reality of how many Black Americans lose their lives each year.
Once you factor in the effects of poverty, education, etc., these effects are severely diminished (the report recommends Table 2, in particular, to see this effect). That's why the problem is racism more than bigotry. That's why black and Latina trans women are much more likely to be victimized.
I even consider black, trans people to be people, and the attempt to play one group off the other as despicable.
Go back 12 years or so and you'd think otherwise.
Using the plight of one oppressed group to diminish the plight of a different oppressed group are standard tactics by oppressors.
fishonjazz
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Nope. Someone else was discussing what effect your post might have had. I said what effect it had on me. Pretty simple.