Trump has been removed from the Colorado ballot (but not really)

[Douchebag K]

I hope and pray that it sets a precedent.

I would love it if anyone, democrat or Republican or independent or whatever, who does what trump did is never allowed to be president again.
I didn't like what happened on January 6th. I didn't like the actions and behavior that was on display by the losing candidate in the last election.
I prefer that nothing like that ever happens again. If it does happen again then I hope that person is never allowed to run again.
Would be awesome if this sets a precedent and all the other states follow suit.

Sadly I'm pretty certain that this ruling won't make a difference. Hell, it will probably just make Trump supporters support him more than they already do unfortunately.

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So what if a republican state decides to remove Biden from their ballot because in their eyes he’s been involved in nefarious dealings and benefited from his families dealings with a foreign country ?? Fair or no ??

 

[fishonjazz]

It also doesn't define 'insurrection'. The Colorado State Supreme Court has just set the precedent that a court can take it upon themselves to define and declare guilt to trigger a 14th Amendment ineligibility. They have also put the US Supreme Court in a difficult position in that they are going to have to decide to overturn this ruling unanimously. If the US Supreme Court does a 6-3 ideological split on this decision and Trump wins the general election then it is civil war because the lefties will never accept Trump as the legitimate president.

Yes they will. If he gets the most votes in an election then he is the president. You have lefties confused with MAGA

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[fishonjazz]

I disagree. Just like 2016, people will be rightfully upset, even extraordinarily upset, but the vast majority of Democrats and people who vote for Democrats will accept the results of the election.

This.

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[TheGoldStandard]

I disagree. The results of all the voters across the country would control the voting.

All Californians don't vote one way. All new Yorkers don't vote one way. Both of those states, and all states, are full of individual people with their own thoughts and opinions.

The way it works right now the candidate I like might win and might lose. But either way I can rest assured that my vote didn't matter.

That's dumb.

You probably think that California is a blue state. What if we decided to use the popular vote instead of the electoral college and suddenly a **** ton of Republicans who live in California came out and voted who never voted on the past because they knew it was pointless. Wouldn't that be cool. More people taking part on the voting! That's a good thing!

Also, you say California and New York (and Texas and Florida who also have huge populations) would control the vote. Will guess what? Right now a tiny amount of swing states control the vote. So this already happens anyway.

What if we still did electoral votes but instead of all 53 of Californias electoral votes going to Biden they break it down by the actual votes on the state? Like 35 of the electrical votes go to Biden but since there are Republican voters in California then 18 go to trump (based off the actual voting of course)

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You can do that, and two states have chosen two. Your elected state officials can decide how the state electoral votes should be divided.

Forgot to mention that the other long debate the Founding Fathers discussed was whether Congress or the people should elect the President. The Electoral College was the compromise. I used to know more nuaunces on this, but it has been 20 years since I studied this stuff.

 

[fishonjazz]

So what if a republican state decides to remove Biden from their ballot because in their eyes he’s been involved in nefarious dealings and benefited from his families dealings with a foreign country ?? Fair or no ??

I don't think that any Republican states think that Joe biden was involved in an insurrection so i think that is irrelevant?
It's not like Colorado just pulled this out their ***.

Trump said the election was going to be stolen months before it even happened (said the same thing prior to the 2016 election. Said the Emmy was stolen from his TV show. Said the time magazine person of the year cover was stolen from him. )

He called a state rep and told him to find votes for himself that didn't exist. Just make them up. He told pence not to count the votes. He sent fake electors. He held a rally the exact day the votes would be counted (pretty sure this wasn't a coincidence lol) and told his angry mob to march on the Whitehouse and fight. He sat around and watched the attack. He made a stop the steal fund (and stole from the fund to line his own pockets.). Audits by Republican partisan companies were done and found that the result was accurate. Recounts were done. Biden still wins. How own AG said it was accurate.
Oh he also lost over 60 times in court regarding the election fraud.

There is your precedent right there. Trump made up a blueprint for us.

If Biden does that then I hope and pray that he is removed from every ballot in every state.

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[fishonjazz]

You can do that, and two states have chosen two. Your electes state officials can decide how the state electoral votes should be divided.

Problem is, my vote doesn't count. That is why I never voted prior to 2016 and why I won't be voting post trump.
I really shouldn't even be voting on 2024, 2020, or 2016 but felt that trump was simply that bad.
What a stupid system to have that encourages people not to vote.

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[Sardines]

So what if a republican state decides to remove Biden from their ballot because in their eyes he’s been involved in nefarious dealings and benefited from his families dealings with a foreign country ?? Fair or no ??

They could try but even a Republican court would reject that because there are no grounds to do so.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

I don't think that any Republican states think that Joe biden was involved in an insurrection so i think that is irrelevant?
It's not like Colorado just pulled this out their ***.

Trump said the election was going to be stolen months before it even happened (said the same thing prior to the 2016 election. Said the Emmy was stolen from his TV show. Said the time magazine person of the year cover was stolen from him. )

He called a state rep and told him to find votes for himself that didn't exist. Just make them up. He told pence not to count the votes. He sent fake electors. He held a rally the exact day the votes would be counted (pretty sure this wasn't a coincidence lol) and told his angry mob to march on the Whitehouse and fight. He sat around and watched the attack. He made a stop the steal fund (and stole from the fund to line his own pockets.). Audits by Republican partisan companies were done and found that the result was accurate. Recounts were done. Biden still wins. How own AG said it was accurate.
Oh he also lost over 60 times in court regarding the election fraud.

There is your precedent right there. Trump made up a blueprint for us.

If Biden does that then I hope and pray that he is removed from every ballot in every state.

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Oh ye of little faith:

Dan Patrick suggests taking Biden off ballot in Texas

Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick (R) on Tuesday suggested taking President Biden off the ballot in Texas due to his handling of immigration, citing the Colorado Supreme Court’s ruling to kick forme…

thehill.com

 

[One Brow]

The 5th amendment applies to civil and criminal proceedings, despite what you see on Law and Order.

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

How did the Colorado Supreme court hold Trump for answer to a capital/infamous crime? Did they try him him twice for the same crime? Compel Trump's testimony? Deprive him of life/liberty/property? Take private property for public use?

Per section 5 of the 14th Amendment, Congress is authorized to adopt appropriate legislation to enforce the 14th. Since they did not do that,

Congress never enacted a law to enforce birthright citizenship, either (AFAICT). Do you have a legal basis for claiming that Constitutional provisions must await Congressional action to be enforceable?

you should look to the rest of the Constitution as other states have done to date in refusing to remove him from the ballot before a final adjudication or legislation from Congress, rather than come up with new law as to how to interpret this as the CO Supreme Court did

From what I can tell, I agree the CO Supreme Court over-reached nd will be reversed.

I worry that this will cause more people to vote for Trump. I disagree with a lot of his policy, but can't say I hated everything he did as President. There are a number of things he did I agree with, but the way he went about everything, and the divisiveness it wrought was simply unacceptable. This country is currently in a fragile state politically, and Trumpism only exacerbates it.

Agreed.

 

[fishonjazz]

Oh ye of little faith:

Dan Patrick suggests taking Biden off ballot in Texas

Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick (R) on Tuesday suggested taking President Biden off the ballot in Texas due to his handling of immigration, citing the Colorado Supreme Court’s ruling to kick forme…

thehill.com

Oh I have plenty of faith that Biden won't be removed from the Texas ballot


Now if trump were being removed from the ballot because he and his family made money from his name like people think Biden and/or his family did then yes, that would set a precedent to remove Bidens name from the ballot.
That's not why trumps name is being removed though. Sure trump did the same thing Biden is accused of, but that isn't why trumps name is being removed. It isn't about trump and his family receiving ill gotten financial gains.


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[One Brow]

So what if a republican state decides to remove Biden from their ballot because in their eyes he’s been involved in nefarious dealings and benefited from his families dealings with a foreign country ?? Fair or no ??

What's the 14th Amendment argument for that?

 

[TheGoldStandard]

Problem is, my vote doesn't count. That is why I never voted prior to 2016 and why I won't be voting post trump.
I really shouldn't even be voting on 2024, 2020, or 2016 but felt that trump was simply that bad.
What a stupid system to have that encourages people not to vote.

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It counts. Maybe if everyone voted instead of making excuses we'd have a differenr result.

I am fine with the electoral college. My problem is a two party system that allows the elite to influence who are candidates are, and sheeple that will only vote for one of two parties.

I won't vote for Trump, and current Biden seems to have become senile. Why are these our two options?

 

[fishonjazz]

It counts. Maybe if everyone voted instead of making excuses we'd have a differenr result.

I am fine with the electoral college. My problem is a two party system that allows the elite to influence who are candidates are, and sheeple that will only vote for one of two parties.

I won't vote for Trump, and current Biden seems to have become senile. Why are these our two options?

Yep, that is another problem all together. The easy one to fix is to make everyone's vote count. That is super easy to do.


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[fishonjazz]

It counts. Maybe if everyone voted instead of making excuses we'd have a differenr result.

I am fine with the electoral college. My problem is a two party system that allows the elite to influence who are candidates are, and sheeple that will only vote for one of two parties.

I won't vote for Trump, and current Biden seems to have become senile. Why are these our two options?

Maybe if all our votes counted then an independent might have a chance!
We could maybe rid ourselves of the two party system!
Some votes in a state would go to the Republican and some would go to democrat and get this, some would go to a non democrat and non Republican! Wouldn't that be awesome?
I would have voted for an independent candidate if my vote counted.

Unfortunately I already knew/know that all of my states electoral votes are going to the Republican every single time so it's pointless for me to vote.

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[TheGoldStandard]

Yep, that is another problem all together. The easy one to fix is to make everyone's vote count. That is super easy to do.


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Feel free to contact your state representatives and ask for the change.

 

[TheGoldStandard]

Maybe if all our votes counted then an independent might have a chance!
We could maybe rid ourselves of the two party system!
I would have voted for an independent candidate if my vote counted.

Unfortunately I already knew/know that all of my states electoral votes are going to the Republican every single time so it's pointless for me to vote.

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You have too much confidence in people, but I appreciate your optimism.

 

[fishonjazz]

You have too much confidence in people, but I appreciate your optimism.

I don't need confidence. I have actual knowledge instead. I know people who don't vote due to the pointlessness of it. I know people who don't like either candidate from the 2 parties. I know people who would vote for independents! If their votes counted then an independent would get some votes.
That's simple common sense logic and knowledge and fact. I think even you can see it but just want to dig in and not admit that you can see it.

I mean I just told you I would vote 3rd party but don't as it stands today. So that is 100% of a certainty that there would be more 3rd part votes than there currently are
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[Douchebag K]

What's the 14th Amendment argument for that?

Mate do you not understand the specific merits of such actions isn’t the point ?? This will open a can of worms for people the other side to justify indulging in *** for tat regardless of the particular merits of what they assert. The legal arguement/interpretation isn’t the point.

The clown hasn’t even been charged in a court of law let alone convicted of insurrection…. So unfortunately the rights/wrongs/facts don’t really matter. It’s a drastic step to take without someone having been convicted and it absolutely does open up the probability of this being used for good or bad purposes.

 

[The Thriller]

You can do that, and two states have chosen two. Your elected state officials can decide how the state electoral votes should be divided.

Forgot to mention that the other long debate the Founding Fathers discussed was whether Congress or the people should elect the President. The Electoral College was the compromise. I used to know more nuaunces on this, but it has been 20 years since I studied this stuff.

This was decided in an era where the country ended at the Appalachians, women couldn’t vote, non land owning white men couldn’t vote, and black people were counted as 3/5ths a human being. Perhaps… not everything the founding fathers decided on was wise.

The electoral college is exactly what’s fueling anti democratic populism in this country. The electoral college is actually acting not to preserve but destroy the system we have in place. Without the EC, Trump and other authoritarians like him, wouldn’t have a prayer. Ridding ourselves of the EC would force candidates from both parties to swing more towards the middle.

 

[fishonjazz]

To me the electoral college is like if my boss came to me and said he was buying lunch asked me what I want and I say I want pizza.
And he says ok I have got you down for tacos

Then the next week he asks me again and I say I want philly cheese steak
and he says ok I have got you down for tacos

Then next week he asks me again and I say I want chinese
And he says ok I have you down for tacos.

Eventually im not even going to say what I want anymore.