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SCS said:
Nope. I'm sorry, it's not. We have regressed.

Defensive Rating
17/18: 103.9 (2nd in the NBA, Went on a large run where we had a Drtg under 100)
18/19: 105.8 (4th in the NBA)

Difference: down 1.9, two spots in the rankings

Opponent PPG
17/18: 99.8 (2nd in the NBA)
18/19: 105.9 (4th in the NBA)

Difference: down 6.1, two spots in the rankings

Offensive Rating
17/18: 108.4 (16th)
18/19: 109.0 (20th)

Difference: up 0.6 which is minimal given teams are up in this category league wide due to rules making offense easier, down 4 spots in the rankings (and down as a whole when factoring the new rules/style of play)

PPG
17/18: 104.1 (19th)
18/19: 109.2 (20th)

Difference: up 5.1, down one spot in the rankings. Same situation as offensive rating.

Point Differential
17/18: +4.3
18/19: +3.3

Difference: down 1.0

FG%
17/18: 46.2% (13th)
18/19: 46.1% (16th)

Difference: down 0.1% when it's easier to score league wide

2FG%
17/18: 51.5% (12th)
18/19: 53.6% (9th)

Difference: up 2.1%, one bright spot

3FG%
17/18: 36.6% (12th)
18/19: 34.6% (24th)

Difference: down 2.0%, Big drop

FT%
17/18: 77.9% (12th)
18/19: 73.3% (26th)

Difference: down 4.6%, Big drop

Rebounds
17/18: 43.3 (20th)
18/19: 45.3 (19th)

Difference: Up 2.0, one spot

Assists
17/18: 22.4 (21st)
18/19: 25.0 (17th)

Difference: up 2.6, four spots.

Steals
17/18: 8.6 (4th)
18/19: 8.3 (12th)

Difference: down 0.3, eight spots

Blocks
17/18: 5.1 (9th)
18/19: 5.5 (10th)

Difference: up 0.4, down one spot

Opponent FG%
17/18: 44.9% (6th)
18/19: 45.6% (12th)

Difference: down 0.7%, six spots

Opponent 3FG%
17/18: 36.5% (17th)
18/19: 35.9% (20th)

Difference: up 0.6%, down three spots

Opponent 2FG%
17/18: 48.8% (4th)
18/19: 50.2% (6th)

Difference: down 1.4%, two spots

Opponent Rebounds
17/18: 41.6 (1st)
18/19: 42.6 (2nd)

Difference: down 1.0, one spot

Opponent Assists
17/18: 20.0 (1st)
18/19: 21.2 (1st)

Difference: down 1.2



We are worse on both sides of the ball. Not only that, Rubio's numbers are down. Ingles numbers are down. Mitchell's efficiency is down. We are not as good as last season. Plain and simple.
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I noticed that when you showed that we improved offensively you disqualified it because offense is up league wide

Well don't you need to disqualify the decrease in our defensive numbers too then? If offense is up league wide than that would automatically mean defense is down league wide, no?

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colton said:
You haven't taken schedule into account. The Jazz have had something like the 2nd hardest schedule so far, and have the 2nd easiest schedule remaining. So what you should do is remove a bunch of easy games from last year's schedule and recompare.
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And this

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fishonjazz said:
I noticed that when you showed that we improved offensively you disqualified it because offense is up league wide

Well don't you need to disqualify the decrease in our defensive numbers too then? If offense is up league wide than that would automatically mean defense is down league wide, no?

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Click to expand...

I didn't disqualify it. I simply mentioned how +0.6 in offensive rating and +5.1 in PPG are definitely due to the rule changes and pace of play. They aren't signs of improvement. We're actually lower in the standings in both of those stat categories this year. Not higher.

And yes the same rule changes have an effect on our defense as well. But when you look at the numbers as a whole it doesn't change that there is a decline all around on defense. For instance, I would expect a lower defensive rating than last year. But we shouldn't drop from 2nd to 4th. Same with opponent PPG. Then you look at everywhere else we have dipped.
 
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colton said:
You haven't taken schedule into account. The Jazz have had something like the 2nd hardest schedule so far, and have the 2nd easiest schedule remaining. So what you should do is remove a bunch of easy games from last year's schedule and recompare.
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We've been using this crutch for months. The schedule has eased and we're still using it.

This is the NBA. The schedule is going to be hard at points. If we're a good team I expect us to perform regardless
 
SCS said:
We've been using this crutch for months. The schedule has eased and we're still using it.

This is the NBA. The schedule is going to be hard at points. If we're a good team I expect us to perform regardless
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It's not a crutch, it's the reality of the situation. The Jazz are actually projected to finish with 49 wins, which is a game better than last season.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2019-nba-predictions/
And the reason why they are projected to finish a game better than last season despite currently being a little worse in the statistical areas you mentioned is precisely because of the schedule.
 
SCS said:
Nope. I'm sorry, it's not. We have regressed.

Defensive Rating
17/18: 103.9 (2nd in the NBA, Went on a large run where we had a Drtg under 100)
18/19: 105.8 (4th in the NBA)

Difference: down 1.9, two spots in the rankings

Opponent PPG
17/18: 99.8 (2nd in the NBA)
18/19: 105.9 (4th in the NBA)

Difference: down 6.1, two spots in the rankings

Offensive Rating
17/18: 108.4 (16th)
18/19: 109.0 (20th)

Difference: up 0.6 which is minimal given teams are up in this category league wide due to rules making offense easier, down 4 spots in the rankings (and down as a whole when factoring the new rules/style of play)

PPG
17/18: 104.1 (19th)
18/19: 109.2 (20th)

Difference: up 5.1, down one spot in the rankings. Same situation as offensive rating.

Point Differential
17/18: +4.3
18/19: +3.3

Difference: down 1.0

FG%
17/18: 46.2% (13th)
18/19: 46.1% (16th)

Difference: down 0.1% when it's easier to score league wide

2FG%
17/18: 51.5% (12th)
18/19: 53.6% (9th)

Difference: up 2.1%, one bright spot

3FG%
17/18: 36.6% (12th)
18/19: 34.6% (24th)

Difference: down 2.0%, Big drop

FT%
17/18: 77.9% (12th)
18/19: 73.3% (26th)

Difference: down 4.6%, Big drop

Rebounds
17/18: 43.3 (20th)
18/19: 45.3 (19th)

Difference: Up 2.0, one spot

Assists
17/18: 22.4 (21st)
18/19: 25.0 (17th)

Difference: up 2.6, four spots.

Steals
17/18: 8.6 (4th)
18/19: 8.3 (12th)

Difference: down 0.3, eight spots

Blocks
17/18: 5.1 (9th)
18/19: 5.5 (10th)

Difference: up 0.4, down one spot

Opponent FG%
17/18: 44.9% (6th)
18/19: 45.6% (12th)

Difference: down 0.7%, six spots

Opponent 3FG%
17/18: 36.5% (17th)
18/19: 35.9% (20th)

Difference: up 0.6%, down three spots

Opponent 2FG%
17/18: 48.8% (4th)
18/19: 50.2% (6th)

Difference: down 1.4%, two spots

Opponent Rebounds
17/18: 41.6 (1st)
18/19: 42.6 (2nd)

Difference: down 1.0, one spot

Opponent Assists
17/18: 20.0 (1st)
18/19: 21.2 (1st)

Difference: down 1.2



We are worse on both sides of the ball. Not only that, Rubio's numbers are down. Ingles numbers are down. Mitchell's efficiency is down. We are not as good as last season. Plain and simple.
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Colton beat me to it. Let’s see where things stand in about 25 games. And, even if we stand a bit lower, that won’t disprove my original point: if the West is tougher, then we may be just as good as last year, but not as good relative to the competition.
 
Good thing we didn't trade Favors and Exum for K.Love. He only scored 32 points with 12 rebounds on 15 shots. Horrible trade idea for the Jazz
 
Yeah the Jazz' defense was seriously elite in January when the team played ****** eastern conference teams + fringe playoff west teams. I'm not worried about that end at all for the Jazz.

I think the Jazz have slipped back offensively though to a degree, Gobert/Favors have been fantastic but the rest of the roster is either inconsistent or has regressed from last year. I think it's also been made abundantly clear that the roster as currently constructed can't compete with the top tier teams in the NBA which is influencing people's opinions on the team. They're a really good team but are clearly a tier below the OKC/Houstons/Denvers of the NBA (note - I was hesitant to include the Nuggets as I don't know how much you can trust them in the playoffs yet but they've been good), let alone the Warriors.
 
Sandman822 said:
I think the Jazz have slipped back offensively though to a degree, Gobert/Favors have been fantastic but the rest of the roster is either inconsistent or has regressed from last year. I think it's also been made abundantly clear that the roster as currently constructed can't compete with the top tier teams in the NBA which is influencing people's opinions on the team. They're a really good team but are clearly a tier below the OKC/Houstons/Denvers of the NBA (note - I was hesitant to include the Nuggets as I don't know how much you can trust them in the playoffs yet but they've been good), let alone the Warriors.
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You mention how consistent Gobert/Favors have been which is absolutely true, but the two of them being on the floor together is also one of the biggest problems with the offense. Our starting unit has major problems scoring nearly every game and the spacing is just awful. The two just don't fit together at all. A really good stretch 4 would solve so many of our offensive woes.
 
colton said:
It's not a crutch, it's the reality of the situation. The Jazz are actually projected to finish with 49 wins, which is a game better than last season.
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2019-nba-predictions/
And the reason why they are projected to finish a game better than last season despite currently being a little worse in the statistical areas you mentioned is precisely because of the schedule.
Click to expand...

Even if the Jazz win 49 they are still likely to be a worse team than last year.

Also, 49 wins is not a big accomplishment. Several expected 50+ wins. I expected 54. Hell, if you wanna use 538 they expected/predicted 54 too... https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2019-nba-predictions/jazz/
 
Jingled said:
You mention how consistent Gobert/Favors have been which is absolutely true, but the two of them being on the floor together is also one of the biggest problems with the offense. Our starting unit has major problems scoring nearly every game and the spacing is just awful. The two just don't fit together at all. A really good stretch 4 would solve so many of our offensive woes.
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You're right, but it's not fair to just pair Favors/Gobert when talking about the starting unit's spacing woe. It's the Rubio/Favors/Gobert trio that is the problem, the team gets instantly better the moment one of Rubio or Favors is taken off (usually Favors). Rubio/Exum/Favors or Gobert has the same issues but is played almost never except when Quin liked what he saw from Dante and tried to get him more minutes.

I think upgrading either spot is the better option but I like upgrading the 4 spot more since it gives the team more flexibility to run Mitchell at the point for stretches with 3 wings. If the Jazz were to upgrade the PG spot I'd want a PG who can get into the paint consistently and be an inside-out threat who can knock down a 3 when need be, which is why I've been on the unrealistic Jrue Holiday bandwagon for a while now.
 
Shad said:
Good thing we didn't trade Favors and Exum for K.Love. He only scored 32 points with 12 rebounds on 15 shots. Horrible trade idea for the Jazz
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We’re going to trade for him this summer.
 
Shad said:
Ya know. It only took donovan 35 shots to get 38 points the other night. How nice would it be to get 32 points with 15 shots?
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Sample size though?
One game shouldn't carry too much weight. Zach lavine scored 42 the other night.


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fishonjazz said:
I noticed that when you showed that we improved offensively you disqualified it because offense is up league wide

Well don't you need to disqualify the decrease in our defensive numbers too then? If offense is up league wide than that would automatically mean defense is down league wide, no?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using JazzFanz mobile app
Click to expand...
There is no room for logic when arguing online. Come on man.
 
fishonjazz said:
Sample size though?
One game shouldn't carry too much weight. Zach lavine scored 42 the other night.


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Unfortunately this kind of inefficiency is proving to be the rule for Donovan rather than the exception.
 
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