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Wait, Mormons get boob jobs?

jazzfan1971 said:
I thought I heard once that they didn't approve any body adornment. Something to do with them melting off when the rapture comes or somesuch.
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What the heck? I have literally never heard that, not even as a Mormon Urban Legend. Although it is true that a past church president 15 years ago (Gordon B. Hinckley) asked church members to not get tattoos nor body piercings, and asked women to even have minimal ear piercings (just one per ear). It's not like anything happens to you if you disregard that though. Here's his talk, if you're interested: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2000/10/great-shall-be-the-peace-of-thy-children?lang=eng
 
colton said:
Your post that I called bull crap on wasn't about history, it was about how you claim today's LDS act.
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There are always stories of the crazy mormon girl who did this and that... In all honesty they aren't practicing mormons... my sister will tell you she is mormon and hasn't stepped into a church in 15 years, smokes, drinks, and likely did or does other things. She is nice to the missionaries when they knock on her door so she considers herself semi-active.

Active members aren't perfect but I can't recall many that were participating in the kinds of activities thrown out here while still posing to be active. Have seen a few leave and start partying or whatever, but I think the vast majority are trying their best to live the standards.
 
Mormons believe in the rapture? That doesn't sound right.
 
Siro said:
Are we pretending Mormons don't usually judge other Mormons dress and appearance? Whaaaat?
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If that is directed at me, the answer is no of course not. Everyone does that. But I'm stating that his claim that "Mormons with handcart/polygamy heritage will judge, shun, and passively persecute other members that change their bodies as such. They also check to see that members that have received sacred garments (underwear) are wearing them 24/7, with gossip as the consequence for not doing so" is utter crap.
 
But please continue with your obviously biased and stupid blanket statements.
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If you are inferring that there is no caste hierarchy in LDS culture, then it is you that are using the blanket.

The line falls along socio-economic lines, and it falls along the Nauvoo bloodlines, from which every LDS president has hailed.

One need not look much further than to research the Council of Fifty to understand how Utah politics has operaed since 1847.

As a Mormon with “handcart/polygamy heritage” I can undoubtedly say you are an idiot.
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No, you really can’t. You can offer your own personal experience, and that’s about it. But if you don’t read and own your own religious history, you will always be at a disadvantage to those who do. Which is why you will continue to rely on insults to make your points.
 
colton said:
If that is directed at me, the answer is no of course not. Everyone does that. But I'm stating that his claim that "Mormons with handcart/polygamy heritage will judge, shun, and passively persecute other members that change their bodies as such. They also check to see that members that have received sacred garments (underwear) are wearing them 24/7, with gossip as the consequence for not doing so" is utter crap.
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Apparently you’re not from SLC.
 
Siro said:
Mormons believe in the rapture? That doesn't sound right.
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Definitely true, although we typically call it the "Second Coming of Jesus Christ" rather than "the rapture", and may have a slightly different concept of it than other groups that call it the rapture. We don't necessarily believe in being literally "caught up", like flying through the air, for example, as my impression is that some groups do (and some LDS might believe that as well).

Here's a good description of the LDS view, http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Jesus_Christ#Second_Coming_of_Jesus_Christ

Jesus Christ: Second Coming of Jesus Christ
Author: LUND, GERALD N.

In Jewish and Christian thought there are two basic ways of viewing the coming of the messiah. Some consider promises of a Messiah and a millennial era symbolic of a time when men will finally learn to live in peace and harmony and the world will enter a new age of enlightenment and progress; no one individual nor any one specific event will usher in this age. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints opposes this view and agrees with the many other Jewish and Christian groups who affirm that there is an actual Messiah, that he will come at some future time to the earth, and that only through his coming and the events associated therewith will a millennial age of peace, harmony, and joy begin. Jews look for the first coming of the Messiah; Latter-day Saints and other Christians for the second coming of Jesus Christ.

The scriptures, both biblical and modern, abundantly testify that the era just preceding the second advent of the Savior will be "perilous" (2 Tim. 3:1) and filled with "tribulation" (Matt. 24:29). At that time "the devil shall have power over his own dominion" (D&C 1:35). The resulting judgments upon the wicked are part of the preparations for the Millennium.

The righteous as well as the unenlightened will experience these times of tribulation. LDS sources teach that the Lord will gather the righteous together in "holy places" (D&C 101:22), which include Zion and her stakes (D&C 115:6). These places are described in terms of "peace," "refuge," and "safety for the saints of the Most High God" (D&C 45:66). The promise is that God "will not suffer that the wicked shall destroy the righteous. Wherefore, he will preserve the righteous by his power…Wherefore, the righteous need not fear" (1 Ne. 22:16-17).

Attempts to predict the time of the coming of the Messiah are legion in both Jewish and Christian traditions. Latter-day Saints consider the second coming "near, even at the doors" (D&C 110:16). But they also accept the decree of scripture that "the hour and the day [of Christ's coming] no man knoweth, neither the angels in heaven, nor shall they know until he comes" (D&C 49:7[italics added]; cf. Matt. 24:36).

With many other Christians, Mormons believe the second coming will be preceded by the battle of Armageddon and by Christ's appearance on the Mount of Olives (see Last Days). Of this event the Doctrine and Covenants says: And then shall the Jews look upon me and say: What are these wounds in thine hands and in thy feet? Then shall they know that I am the Lord; for I will say unto them: These wounds are the wounds with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. I am he who was lifted up. I am Jesus that was crucified. I am the Son of God. And then shall they weep because of their iniquities; then shall they lament because they persecuted their king [D&C 45:51-53; cf. Zech. 13:6].

"From that day forward," it has been proclaimed, "the Jews as a nation become holy and their city and sanctuary become holy. There also the Messiah establishes his throne and seat of government" (Clark, p. 258).

Before Christ's coming in glory, "there shall be silence in the heaven for the space of half an hour; and immediately after shall the curtain of heaven be unfolded…and the face of the Lord shall be unveiled" (D&C 88:95). This apparently is the time when "all flesh shall see me together" (D&C 101:23; Rev. 1:7).

The Doctrine and Covenants declares that "the earth shall pass away so as by fire" (D&C 43:32). Some have conjectured that this could occur through a nuclear holocaust. Though certain apocalyptic passages may seem to describe the effects of nuclear warfare (e.g., Isa. 34:1-10), a modern revelation teaches that the "fire" of the Second Coming is the actual presence of the Savior, a celestial glory comparable to the glory of the sun (D&C 76:70) or a "consuming fire" (Heb. 12:29; cf. Mal. 3:2;4:1). "So great shall be the glory of his presence that the sun shall hide his face in shame" (D&C 133:49). "The presence of the Lord shall be as the melting fire that burneth, and as the fire which causeth the waters to boil" (D&C 133:41; cf. Isa. 64:2; JS-H 1:37). "Element shall melt with fervent heat" (D&C 101:25) and "the mountains shall flow down at thy presence" (D&C 133:44). The Doctrine and Covenants repeats Isaiah's declaration that "the Lord shall be red in his apparel, and his garments like him that treadeth in the wine-vat" (D&C 133:48; cf. Isa. 63:2).

The apostle Paul wrote to the Thessalonian Saints that those living on the earth at the time of Christ's appearing would be caught up to meet him (1 Thess. 4:16-17). The Doctrine and Covenants, using similar language, adds that these righteous saints will be "quickened" and will join those "who have slept in their graves," who will also "be caught up to meet him in the midst of the pillar of heaven" (D&C 88:96-97; see Resurrection). Christ will descend to earth "in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven" (Acts 1:11).

With the coming of Christ, the millennial era of peace, harmony, and righteousness will begin. Satan will then have "no power over the hearts of the people, for they dwell in righteousness, and the Holy One of Israel reigneth" (1 Ne. 22:26; see also Millennium).

Bibliography
Clark, James R., comp. "Proclamation of the Twelve." In Messages of the First Presidency, Vol. l, p. 258. Salt Lake City, 1965.
Lund, Gerald N. The Coming of the Lord. Salt Lake City, 1971.
McConkie, Bruce R. The Millennial Messiah: The Second Coming of the Son of Man. Salt Lake City, 1982.
Pike, Dana M. "'The Great and Dreadful Day of the Lord': The Anatomy of an Expression." BYU Studies 41:2 (2002):147-160.
Smith, Joseph Fielding. The Signs of the Times. Salt Lake City, 1964.
 
Isn't the rapture the ascendance to heaven of the select few before the second coming? I don't think it is the second coming itself.
 
Siro said:
Isn't the rapture the ascendance to heaven of the select few before the second coming? I don't think it is the second coming itself.
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Hmm, apparently it has multiple meanings, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture
For some it's just before the Second Coming. That's the usage I am most familiar with, and what I was referring to. For others I guess it's viewed as being substantially before, and often followed by a time of tribulation. For some it's an aerial event (taking the phrase "being caught up" literally), for others (like LDS) that description is not necessarily a literal thing.

Either way, however, I think it refers to all the believers, not just a select few. But I could be wrong.

edit--the part of my Encyclopedia of Mormonism quote on the Second Coming which specifically refers to the rapture was this paragraph: "The apostle Paul wrote to the Thessalonian Saints that those living on the earth at the time of Christ's appearing would be caught up to meet him (1 Thess. 4:16-17). The Doctrine and Covenants, using similar language, adds that these righteous saints will be "quickened" and will join those "who have slept in their graves," who will also "be caught up to meet him in the midst of the pillar of heaven" (D&C 88:96-97; see Resurrection). Christ will descend to earth "in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven" (Acts 1:11)."
 
colton said:
Hmm, apparently it has multiple meanings, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture
For some it's just before the Second Coming. That's the usage I am most familiar with, and what I was referring to. For others I guess it's viewed as being substantially before, and often followed by a time of tribulation. For some it's an aerial event (taking the phrase "being caught up" literally), for others (like LDS) that description is not necessarily a literal thing.

Either way, however, I think it refers to all the believers, not just a select few. But I could be wrong.
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The way I know it is 144k or something like that. I'm sure it's in the Bible. I used to know this stuff.

I don't think Mormons believe in that. Of course I know Mormons believe in the second coming.
 
Handlogten's Heros said:
I would believe this. I am not sure how we are saying boob jobs is the moral equivalent to having sex pre or outside of marriage. Sex isn't outlawed in the church... we are even allowed to enjoy it... within the bonds of marriage.
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Boob job= pre-marital sex/affair/divorce. Of this the odds are fairly good. Too many impure thoughts by the boob jobee as the men begin swarming. Then they just have to show them off.
 
Siro said:
The way I know it is 144k or something like that. I'm sure it's in the Bible. I used to know this stuff.

I don't think Mormons believe in that. Of course I know Mormons believe in the second coming.
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The 144,000 reference I think you're thinking of is from the book of Revelation. If I recall correctly it's talking about the judgment, not the Second Coming. And the only group I know who takes the number literally is the Jehovah's Witnesses (at least I think they do).


edit: More info from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/144,000#Christianity
  • Revelation 14:1 (ESV) - Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.
  • Revelation 14:3–5 (ESV) - And they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. For it is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless.
The numbers 12,000 and 144,000 are variously interpreted in traditional Christianity. Some, taking the numbers in Revelation to be symbolic,[1] believe it represents all of God's people throughout history in the heavenly Church.[2] One suggestion is that the number comes from 12, a symbol for totality, which is squared and multiplied by one thousand for more emphasis. Others insist the numbers 12,000 and 144,000 are literal numbers and representing either descendants of Jacob (also called Israel in the Bible) or others to whom God has given a superior destiny with a distinct role at the time of the end of the world.[3] One understanding is that the 144,000 are recently converted Jewish evangelists sent out to bring sinners to Jesus Christ during the seven year tribulation period.[4] Preterists believe they are Jewish Christians, sealed for deliverance from the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Dispensationalist Tim LaHaye, in his commentary Revelation: Illustrated and Made Plain (Zondervan, 1975), considers the 144,000 in Revelation 7 to refer to Jews and those in Revelation 14 to refer to Christians.[5]

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that exactly 144,000 faithful Christian men and women from Pentecost of 33 AD until the present day will be resurrected to heaven as immortal spirit beings to spend eternity with God and Christ. They believe that these people are "anointed" by God to become part of the spiritual "Israel of God".[6][7] They believe the 144,000 (which they consider to be synonymous with the "little flock" of Luke 12:32) will serve with Christ as king-priests for a thousand years, while all other people accepted by God (the "other sheep" of John 10:16, composed of "the great crowd" of Revelation 7:9,14and the resurrected "righteous and the unrighteous" ones of Acts 24:15), will be given an opportunity to live forever in a restored paradise on earth.
 
colton said:
The 144,000 reference I think you're thinking of is from the book of Revelation. If I recall correctly it's talking about the judgment, not the Second Coming. And the only group I know who takes the number literally is the Jehovah's Witnesses (at least I think they do).


edit: More info from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/144,000#Christianity
  • Revelation 14:1 (ESV) - Then I looked, and behold, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads.
  • Revelation 14:3–5 (ESV) - And they were singing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. For it is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are blameless.
The numbers 12,000 and 144,000 are variously interpreted in traditional Christianity. Some, taking the numbers in Revelation to be symbolic,[1] believe it represents all of God's people throughout history in the heavenly Church.[2] One suggestion is that the number comes from 12, a symbol for totality, which is squared and multiplied by one thousand for more emphasis. Others insist the numbers 12,000 and 144,000 are literal numbers and representing either descendants of Jacob (also called Israel in the Bible) or others to whom God has given a superior destiny with a distinct role at the time of the end of the world.[3] One understanding is that the 144,000 are recently converted Jewish evangelists sent out to bring sinners to Jesus Christ during the seven year tribulation period.[4] Preterists believe they are Jewish Christians, sealed for deliverance from the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Dispensationalist Tim LaHaye, in his commentary Revelation: Illustrated and Made Plain (Zondervan, 1975), considers the 144,000 in Revelation 7 to refer to Jews and those in Revelation 14 to refer to Christians.[5]

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that exactly 144,000 faithful Christian men and women from Pentecost of 33 AD until the present day will be resurrected to heaven as immortal spirit beings to spend eternity with God and Christ. They believe that these people are "anointed" by God to become part of the spiritual "Israel of God".[6][7] They believe the 144,000 (which they consider to be synonymous with the "little flock" of Luke 12:32) will serve with Christ as king-priests for a thousand years, while all other people accepted by God (the "other sheep" of John 10:16, composed of "the great crowd" of Revelation 7:9,14and the resurrected "righteous and the unrighteous" ones of Acts 24:15), will be given an opportunity to live forever in a restored paradise on earth.
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You beat me to it and put more work into it.

I've seen 12 as symbolic of totality but also priesthood. I've seen 1000 as symbolic for "a great many". Together it could be a great many people with the priesthood in their midst, and the totality of his true followers.

Good post.
 
So it is the end of the world in other words? All believers going to heaven and all non believers remaining to live on Earth? Or going to Hell? Or to Purgatory? To think if all believers would be gone and it is just us few atheists left to live here... we would have so much more space! It would be actually perfect solution for global warming, overpopulation, lack of food, etc. I like this plan from God. Please do it before I am old.
 
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