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We Are No. 27
- Thread starter homeytennis
- Start date
And if Harpring was playing 36 mpg as a "SF" - and he's better than anything that Jazz have now or at least have proven to be to date - that leaves 12 minutes for the bench of SF-by-committee to be so much better than Sasha Pavlovic (who was a decent player) that it makes their rotation better in those 12 minutes. Besides that, I'm pretty sure AK played quite a bit of 3, even if he played mostly 4. A lot of that being because I think the 3 and 4 were interchangeable depending on the set when he and Harpring were on the floor.
I was going to pull up what 82games had to say but this link appears to not be working: https://www.82games.com/0304UTA.HTM
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Deleted member 848
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Evidently not. Or else he'd be responding to at least a single point of mine.
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Deleted member 848
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Pavlovic? Decent? LOL. Tell me what's decent about 27% from three, or 39.6% from the field. Uncle Jamaal himself arguably had better production last season. Brandon Rush is on another echelon.
He did play 15 mpg though, important considering he was Harpring's main backup. AK was mostly a 4. I guess we'll have to agree-to-disagree here.
MVP
Well-Known Member
Hey don't be ridiculous. I am pointing to his superior strength and ability to be dominant in the post vs other SF's which none of the SF's have right now. At that time both AK and Harpring where complimenting each other perfectly as they frequently changed their positions on the floor depending on matchups. Even if AK was listed as PF it was actually Harpring who did more post up damage. AK was a slasher and mostly used his quickness to beat opposing PF's. He did quite a bit of ball distribution from outside the paint as well with Harpring being primary recipient on that screen and curl 15-18FT elbow jumper
Now lets look at Hayward - can Jazz dump ball to him in the post and expect him to have same kind of success? Maybe on occasion but you can't depend on it. Can he rebound like Harpring or defend PF's ( which was done a lot as again AK and Harpring where rotating and switching a lot both on defense and offense)? I do not think so.
In general it would be not fair to compare Hayward vs Harpring 2004 as they are way different. If we want to have fair evaluation you need to compare how Harpring/AK played vs Hayward/Favors and what made Harp and AK pairing so successful and unique in 2004.
I guess so, since all that that team had as a point of strength was their small forwards.
MVP
Well-Known Member
You are 100% correct.
There isn't a single "SF" on this roster that can play in or guard the post well.
green
Well-Known Member
There is a reason why I compared Hayward to AK and Kanter to Harpring you two...Kanter and Harp both were strongest in the post and could step outside if needed.
Hayward and AK were both outside/slashers first (although Hayward is a better shooter and AK a better passer).
Like I said originally, I don't think Kanter can put up Harp #'s and I don't think Hayward can put up AK #'s.
Hayward and AK were both outside/slashers first (although Hayward is a better shooter and AK a better passer).
Like I said originally, I don't think Kanter can put up Harp #'s and I don't think Hayward can put up AK #'s.
Actually, I am kind of talking out of my *** here. Someone with access to Synergy sports (maybe I do? I can be lazy). I guess I just have a tough time seeing who it is on this Jazz team that can duplicate Harpring's contributions in terms of skill-set.
MVP
Well-Known Member
Few jumpers Kanter made last season does not mean he can nail them on consistent basis like Harpring was. This has yet to be seen. Harpring was like a machine on that elbow jumper. He used to botch few easy layups here and there though...
Darkwing Duck
Well-Known Member
Per game or per 36?
green
Well-Known Member
Per game
framer
Well-Known Member
What people are missing is that SOMEONE is going to have to score. The Jazz are not going to average 55 points a game. One or two players are going to take a dramatic step forward stats wise by virtue of more playing time and available shots. That is why comparing after-season stats from the misfits squad against last season stats from our youngsters doesn't work. Look at Arroyo. He was awful once he had actual expectations, but he got his that season.
The jazz are also going to win more than 20 games. How many teams are going to spend a lot of time gameplanning for us? The will rightly expect to show up and roll us. That will work most times, but the Jazz will win at least 1 out of 4. There are some terrible teams that won't be able to deal with our frontline.
The key is developing a pick and roll. We do that we won't be competing for worst in the league. Probably in the 7 to 9 range, lottery wise.
The jazz are also going to win more than 20 games. How many teams are going to spend a lot of time gameplanning for us? The will rightly expect to show up and roll us. That will work most times, but the Jazz will win at least 1 out of 4. There are some terrible teams that won't be able to deal with our frontline.
The key is developing a pick and roll. We do that we won't be competing for worst in the league. Probably in the 7 to 9 range, lottery wise.
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Deleted member 848
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Had a huge post typed up, and my computer crashed.
I need to go, I just wanted to say in closing that
A) just because Hayward can't earn points in the post, it no way makes him an inferior player. Is shaq awful because he can't hit a game winner if he's iso'd behind the three point line? No? Didn't think so. Harpring is better in the post. Wonderful. Hayward is better at driving and facilitating.
B) hayward and his rebounding has been addressed several times in this thread, along with potentially team-decided justification
C) your last paragraph was essentially said, word-by-word, by myself in this thread
We have Marvin Williams as our decent SF defender, and Favors + Kanter as our offensive weapons in the post.
We should be fine, barring injury bug
MVP
Well-Known Member
Ok, I thought you talking about the game Jazz won in SL where Malone did not play due to injury.
green
Well-Known Member
Framer - you tell us. I'd better Favors will up his numbers because he is willing to shoot. In the one game he was allowed to play three quarters, he put up a Jeffersonian effort with 23 pts on 20 shots, or something similar. Kanter hasn't been afraid to shoot either.
So, you will get 15-20 shots for Favors every night, but if his fg% doesn't rise, then you have downgraded from Al offensively. Kanter will probably take Millsap's shots, and hopefully be more effective. Which seems like a good thing.
BUT
Our pg play might be worse than last year (as hard as it may be to believe), this is assuming Favors can play 35 mins a night (last week in the USA game he had 4 fouls in 8 mins, so don't count on it). Also, with Corbin's love of the one man hold the ball until the shot clock expires offense and Favors' and Kanter's willingness to play along, I don't see Hayward's numbers changing much.
Also, when Favors goes out with foul trouble, Evans comes in. Ouch. Remember last year when Al and Paul would dig a ten point hole and then the bench would bail them out? Who will bail Kanter and Favors out? Evans? Biedrens? Williams? Jefferson? That ten point deficit just became a 15-20 one.
Finally, Sloan played AK and Harp a ton of minutes. I don't think Lindsey lets Corbin do that...or Corbin does that. Corbin will want to play Biedrens, Lucas, Marvin and maybe even Jefferson.
So, you will get 15-20 shots for Favors every night, but if his fg% doesn't rise, then you have downgraded from Al offensively. Kanter will probably take Millsap's shots, and hopefully be more effective. Which seems like a good thing.
BUT
Our pg play might be worse than last year (as hard as it may be to believe), this is assuming Favors can play 35 mins a night (last week in the USA game he had 4 fouls in 8 mins, so don't count on it). Also, with Corbin's love of the one man hold the ball until the shot clock expires offense and Favors' and Kanter's willingness to play along, I don't see Hayward's numbers changing much.
Also, when Favors goes out with foul trouble, Evans comes in. Ouch. Remember last year when Al and Paul would dig a ten point hole and then the bench would bail them out? Who will bail Kanter and Favors out? Evans? Biedrens? Williams? Jefferson? That ten point deficit just became a 15-20 one.
Finally, Sloan played AK and Harp a ton of minutes. I don't think Lindsey lets Corbin do that...or Corbin does that. Corbin will want to play Biedrens, Lucas, Marvin and maybe even Jefferson.
framer
Well-Known Member
I bet Rush blows up. Anybody that can hit at 40%+ from 3 should do well as long as Favors and Kanter can learn to pass out of the double. I think Burke can get a half a dozen points a game at least on the pick and roll from game 1. It should be his bread and butter and he wasn't really able to play that game in summer league. By the end of the season he should be in double figures. I also expect Burks to do well anchoring the bench as he should get A LOT of looks at the basket.
Much better Defense should lead to more transition points. The young'uns showed they could run.
We will still lose a lot of games because Burks won't always be able to outscore the other team's bench. I expect absolutely nothing from Jefferson or Biedrins.
Much better Defense should lead to more transition points. The young'uns showed they could run.
We will still lose a lot of games because Burks won't always be able to outscore the other team's bench. I expect absolutely nothing from Jefferson or Biedrins.