What are Republicans doing to Unify the country?

[fishonjazz]

Technically true I guess. The poll measuring skepticism did happen on a later date, but the authors are smart enough to have not said that one caused the other. It is incontestable reality that more voting laws were changed in 2020, with the COVID pandemic being the excuse, than in any year in the past 150. It is those changes that many are pointing to when they say the post-COVID voting system tilts the playing field to a degree that they don't believe elections are actually free and fair any longer.

How Mass Mail-In Voting Changes Everything

When the emphasis in elections shifts from turning out conventional in-person voters to chasing mail-in ballots, we have entered a qualitatively different electoral world than the one we inhabited before.

www.theamericanconservative.com

Agreed. However those changes worked just fine according to election officials, AG, Judges, forensic audits, recounts, etc etc. Hell even rudy guliani and other lawyers for trump showed up in court with no evidence of any issues that happened due to the changes that were made. Many people have been mailing in their ballots for years and years. Trump tried very very hard to convince everyone to not trust elections anymore though. It worked.
Also, people seem to forget that it wasn't only biden and trump on the ballots. There were all kinds of positions on the ballots and no one was complaining about any of them. Trump didn't complain about voter fraud in alabama or louisiana or florida. Only the states he lost that were swing states. Kinda makes me think he had an agenda and wasn't being honest about the election being stolen lol.

 

[Sardines]

Elections being representative of more of the population is bad for Republicans, I agree. Someone needs to tell older rural white voters that it is perfectly fair that more Americans are being represented and they don't get to just have whatever white conservatives decide be the final word.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Agreed. However those changes worked just fine according to election officials, AG, Judges, forensic audits, recounts, etc etc.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "worked just fine". There is less trust in the system. You can place the blame wherever you will but there is less trust in the system.

The new system is legal. No problems there. A president was elected. Votes were counted. If those are the things by which you judge "worked just fine", then there isn't much argument against it. The questions over "worked just fine" are in how sustainable it is. The loose chain of custody coupled with a lack of transparency and totally ineffective voter identification is not how any other nation does their elections. Trust is going to continue to erode even after Trump is gone.

 

[Sardines]

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "worked just fine". There is less trust in the system. You can place the blame wherever you will but there is less trust in the system.

The new system is legal. No problems there. A president was elected. Votes were counted. If those are the things by which you judge "worked just fine", then there isn't much argument against it. The questions over "worked just fine" are in how sustainable it is. The loose chain of custody coupled with a lack of transparency and totally ineffective voter identification is not how any other nation does their elections. Trust is going to continue to erode even after Trump is gone.

The chain of custody is not loose. There is full transparency. Voter ID is effective.

The reason people don't trust the system is not up for debate. It's Trump.

 

[fishonjazz]

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "worked just fine". There is less trust in the system. You can place the blame wherever you will but there is less trust in the system.

The new system is legal. No problems there. A president was elected. Votes were counted. If those are the things by which you judge "worked just fine", then there isn't much argument against it. The questions over "worked just fine" are in how sustainable it is. The loose chain of custody coupled with a lack of transparency and totally ineffective voter identification is not how any other nation does their elections. Trust is going to continue to erode even after Trump is gone.

What I mean is that if trump wasn't involved in the election in 2016 and 2020 then the trust in the election process would be about what it always was. (Much better than it currently is)

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[Al-O-Meter]

Voter ID is effective.

Really? Show me. Pick any state you want and show me the validation testing they've done to prove their mail-in identification effectiveness rate. I know you won't because you can't. There is zero data on how effectively mail-in voters are identified in the current system. Even recounts and audit are strictly prohibited from examining that aspect. It is a zero transparency black box with a command to trust infallible authorities.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

What I mean is that if trump wasn't involved in the election in 2016 and 2020 then the trust in the election process would be about what it always was.

Hard disagree. Public trust in government has been measurably falling since 2001. You want the answer to be that easy but the data says otherwise.

 

[fishonjazz]

Hard disagree. Public trust in government has been measurably falling since 2001. You want the answer to be that easy but the data says otherwise.

There are degrees of falling though.
The answer is obviously that easy.

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[Sardines]

Hard disagree. Public trust in government has been measurably falling since 2001. You want the answer to be that easy but the data says otherwise.

Trust in the government and trust in vote integrity are two different things.

 

[The Thriller]

Gee, I wonder if the leader of the MAGA cult saying everyday that he was cheated in the 2020 election has anything to do with MAGA cultists believing that he was cheated in the 2020 election?

 

[fishonjazz]

Gee, I wonder if the leader of the MAGA cult saying everyday that he was cheated in the 2020 election has anything to do with MAGA cultists believing that he was cheated in the 2020 election?

They literally donated millions of dollars to a stop the steal fund (from which trump of course stole money from that he didn't use to fight the stolen election but rather to simply like his own pockets)

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[The Thriller]

MAGA cultists on this website want it both ways:

1. They demand respect and demand that we refrain from judging their lack of character harshly. They want to be treated and respected as honest adults.

While

2. Engaging in the silliest and dumbest conspiracies. They want to be treated as children, completely unable to play the role as people of action.

Notice how @Al-O-Meter takes the passive voice?

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "worked just fine". There is less trust in the system. You can place the blame wherever you will but there is less trust in the system.

. It is those changes that many are pointing to when they say the post-COVID voting system tilts the playing field to a degree that they don't believe elections are actually free and fair any longer.

See? By taking the passive voice, MAGA aren’t people of action. They’re merely feathers in the wind, like the introduction in Forrest Gump. They don’t indulge in conspiracies. They don’t worship Trump. They don’t come to his aid to cause an insurrection and attempt a coup. They’re merely innocent little babies who for some inexplicable reason, don’t trust elections anymore. Oh yes, they use the excuse that “but Covid! They made changes! Mail ins!” And because they aren’t people of action, those of us attempting to hold them accountable as adults, become the bad guys. A concept I fully reject. MAGA cultists are grown *** adults who are playing with fire. I feel for many of them, who think that their role in life socially is to defend authoritarianism. But at the same time, they’ve decided to worship one of the worst people in the world. And if the choice is between them and defending American democracy for myself, my family, and my community, I’m gonna choose American democracy every time. **** MAGA! And **** you who defend MAGA.

But as @fishonjazz has pointed out, none of those creeps who won their House and Senate races complain about voter fraud impacting their own races. None of them complain about mail ins and the Covid changes and how they might’ve helped them in their own races. Utah has had mail in voting for years, is Utah a blue state? Does Utah have a lot of voter fraud? For some reason, Trump and his MAGA cult, only whine about “election fraud” in a handful of swing states that Trump lost.

 

[The Thriller]

They literally donated millions of dollars to a stop the steal fund (from which trump of course stole money from that he didn't use to fight the stolen election but rather to simply like his own pockets)

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Example 1,495,847,930 of how no one has greater contempt for conservatives than Trump and MAGA. No one. You don’t see liberals or Biden or Democrats fleecing conservatives like that.

I remember a story from The NY Times that showed how Trump purposely sent out emails in 2020 that hid how donations to him would be auto subscribed. So a ton of old boomers accidentally clicked on a link to “stop the steal” and without knowing, subscribed to a monthly donation to Trump without them knowing. Trump just vacuumed up their life savings, like it were one of his many defunct charities or Trump steaks or Trump University.

Sad

How Trump Steered Supporters Into Unwitting Donations (Published 2021)

Online donors were guided into weekly recurring contributions. Demands for refunds spiked. Complaints to banks and credit card companies soared. But the money helped keep Donald Trump’s struggling campaign afloat.

www.nytimes.com

I do feel bad for these people. They got fleeced. They probably should’ve known better. But I do feel bad for older people.

I have zero sympathy for the idiots who dress up as shamans to commit crimes or the losers so bored with life that they buy Trump crap or go to his endless rallies or post nonstop conspiracies washing Trump’s balls on a sports messaging board. Those folks desperately need to go outside and meet regular people.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

Trust in the government and trust in vote integrity are two different things.

Again, the data doesn't agree with you. Per Gallup, the confidence in accuracy of the 2004 election was 76% while it was down to 59% in the most recent election. With all due respect, you appear to just be saying things you want to be true.

 

[The Thriller]

With all due respect, you appear to just be saying things you want to be true.

LOL
Remember guys, this guy wants you to take him seriously, as a honest poster, not a troll.

 

[fishonjazz]

Again, the data doesn't agree with you. Per Gallup, the confidence in accuracy of the 2004 election was 76% while it was down to 59% in the most recent election. With all due respect, you appear to just be saying things you want to be true.

So confidence in the election was way higher way back in 2004 than it is in the most recent election that involved trump? Seems kinda like you just posted something showing that trump might have had a huge negative effect on confidence in election accuracy.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

So confidence in the election was way higher way back in 2004 than it is in the most recent election that involved trump? Seems kinda like you just posted something showing that trump might have had a huge negative effect on confidence in election accuracy.

The confidence in the election of 2004 was 76%. The confidence in the election of 2008 was 71%. Trump had no involvement. The confidence falls if Trump is involved or if Trump is not involved, and it seems to fall along with trust in the government in general. The idea that everything will be fine when Trump isn't on the ballot appears to be uninformed wishful thinking.

 

[fishonjazz]

The confidence in the election of 2004 was 76%. The confidence in the election of 2008 was 71%. Trump had no involvement. The confidence falls if Trump is involved or if Trump is not involved, and it seems to fall along with trust in the government in general. The idea that everything will be fine when Trump isn't on the ballot appears to be uninformed wishful thinking.

So like I said there are degrees to the falling. Trump is the reason for the excessive confidence falling. Also there is no way to know if the confidence in elections might have went up if trump wasn't involved. Trends can change.

What we can know for certain is that if the president/former president who had extremely loyal followers is publicly screaming from the top of his lungs that the election was stolen and there was tons of fraud then that is going to hurt the confidence in our elections

I mean come on man. Duh

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[Sardines]

The confidence in the election of 2004 was 76%. The confidence in the election of 2008 was 71%. Trump had no involvement. The confidence falls if Trump is involved or if Trump is not involved, and it seems to fall along with trust in the government in general. The idea that everything will be fine when Trump isn't on the ballot appears to be uninformed wishful thinking.

In 2008 Trump was involved. He was offering money for Obama's birth certificate, then when he got that he moved the goal posts to the long form birth certificate, which was the first time I ever heard of a long form birth certificate. And just to not leave you hanging, the long form was eventually disclosed and Trump didn't honor his deal. I know, crazy, Trump is well known for always honoring his deals...

Trump was spinning conspiracy theories when a black person was a front runner Presidential candidate, true to form. He was calling Rosie O'Donnell a fat pig. Talking trash on Martha Stewart and the Martha Stewart version of Apprentice. Just Trump doing Trump things.

 

[Al-O-Meter]

In 2008 Trump was involved. He was offering money for Obama's birth certificate

Not in 2008 he wasn't. Again, you're just saying stuff you want to be true.