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What's the point of keeping Lauri anymore?

I don't actually trust Danny with that warchest. He treats them chest like a dying man protecting his last cracker, the older Trader Dan gets, the mire protective. I read we have been after decent names past year, and I would guess all of them fell for Danny not using picks. I would even go as far as guessing it would not have been even overpay, but he just wants to rip everyone off
 
Step-Back Lauri said:
I don't actually trust Danny with that warchest. He treats them chest like a dying man protecting his last cracker, the older Trader Dan gets, the mire protective. I read we have been after decent names past year, and I would guess all of them fell for Danny not using picks. I would even go as far as guessing it would not have been even overpay, but he just wants to rip everyone off
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Like who? It's safe to say we would have to pay more than what was offered for any of the guys we were rumored to be after. All of those would have been an overpay. I had no interest in paying more than what bucks paid for Lillard or Celtics paid for Jrue especially with their age. Also with the fact Lillard only wanted to go to Miami and Jrue is a FA this off season so it's likely a 1 year rental for us.

You obviously care more about Lauri getting to the playoffs than you do about the Jazz. But you don't make dumb trades like that. We kicked the tires and it was a bad option. Instead of dumping picks just for a slightly better year, hold on to them for better options. Worst case you make picks with them and hope some turn out.
 
Tremendous Upside said:
Lauri is unique in that he's a youngish top 20 guy on a team that just got worse on purpose. That just doesn't happen.
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Dallas has a pretty solid young guy, and they tried their absolute hardest (and succeeded) to get worse and miss the playoffs last year.
 
HermanG said:
So you think every year, you should just make short term investments to maximize that year and thats the best strategy?
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I said nothing of the kind. I was responding to you saying that playing Hendricks, Sensa and (more) Keyonte, raises the ceiling vs. the guys we traded. It doesn't. It lowers it, a lot.

I get it. Everyone is going through the stages of grief and most haven't got past the "bargaining" phase. But let's not kid ourselves. Playing Hendricks instead of KO doesn't raise the ceiling. That's just silly.

hgb said:
Dallas has a pretty solid young guy, and they tried their absolute hardest (and succeeded) to get worse and miss the playoffs last year.
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The Mavs traded for Kyrie Irving at the deadline. That's the exact opposite of trying to tank, that's going all-in.
 
Tanktastic said:
I said nothing of the kind. I was responding to you saying that playing Hendricks, Sensa and (more) Keyonte, raises the ceiling vs. the guys we traded. It doesn't. It lowers it, a lot.
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I don't think you get what ceiling means. It definitely raises the ceiling but it also lowers the floor. It likely make us worse for a bit but the ceiling goes up. There is a reason Hendricks was a lottery pick and that's for his potential/ceiling. Are we likely to see that any time soon? Probably not.

You can see Keyonte had some bad stretches but he has raised the ceiling for us lately for us with big 4ths. Now hopefully he starts to get more consistent, but personally I would guess we don't see that this year. But him playing more definitely raises the ceiling for us going forward.
 
I don't know who is right or wrong here but we may know soon. If Lauri sign a new deal, it mean he believe in the project. In the other case, he will get trade and plenty of teams will go for him. Time will tell.
 
Tanktastic said:
I said nothing of the kind. I was responding to you saying that playing Hendricks, Sensa and (more) Keyonte, raises the ceiling vs. the guys we traded. It doesn't. It lowers it, a lot.

I get it. Everyone is going through the stages of grief and most haven't got past the "bargaining" phase. But let's not kid ourselves. Playing Hendricks instead of KO doesn't raise the ceiling. That's just silly.
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Ceiling of the team this year is not nearly as relevant as the ceiling of the team in 2027 (or whatever the year was that you referred to). Even if there was a way to push us into a feel good round 1 exit (which we still might get), the FO took the long term approach and I respect that choice.

Also how is it that I'm the one grieving and not you? Based on what has been said here during this deadline, it should be obvious that I get what the FO is trying to do here, while you are one of those who dont.
 
While Lauri might already be top 20 player in the league, having one top 20 player is NEVER gonna make you the #1 team. And it doesnt matter if you add 10 guys who are top 100 but outside of the top 20 into the mix, you will not be a contender still. You are gonna end up using your assets and cap space for a team that is good but not good enough.

The goal for the FO, for Hardy, for the team AND FOR LAURI, is to win a championship. To have even the slightest chance to do that, we need to either get another guy who is AT LEAST as good as Lauri. ONLY guy who has been traded since the start of 2022-23 season who is on that level is Dame really. And arguing we should have gone for him in hindsight would be silly as he and his new team are not looking great.

Until "that guy" becomes available, we can do nothing better than to walk the line between developing our own players and adding prospects while taking care of our assets and cap space. I think the FO is actually taking a risk FOR LAURI, by staying in the middle and not bottoming out. They are making sure we are in position to make a jump without wasting time building up.
 
HermanG said:
The goal for the FO, for Hardy, for the team AND FOR LAURI, is to win a championship.
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To my knowledge, and I don't think I've missed many interviews from him, Lauri has never stated that. Or even talked about winning a championship. What he has actually said, in numerous interviews, is wanting to make the playoffs and compete in them. That was Lauri's goal for this season as well.

Sure, he'd like to win a championship, every single player in the league does. But all of Lauri's statements have been far, far away from this "win or bust" mentality.
 
"Classic Adages of the NBA", #4838:

The best way to keep your cushy front office job in a rebuilding, losing franchise is to push success-related goals so far into the future that they lose all tangible connections with the present.

This is also the way all moves, failures and aborted projects can be explained away as integral parts of a plan too complicated for simple-minded, win-hungry fans to understand. Usually this part is handled by the armchair GM's of the fanbase who want to feel that they're on another level of understanding strategy.
 
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Tanktastic said:
To my knowledge, and I don't think I've missed many interviews from him, Lauri has never stated that. Or even talked about winning a championship. What he has actually said, in numerous interviews, is wanting to make the playoffs and compete in them. That was Lauri's goal for this season as well.

Sure, he'd like to win a championship, every single player in the league does. But all of Lauri's statements have been far, far away from this "win or bust" mentality.
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What you say here has two major issues.
  1. If Lauri's goal wasnt to win a championship but just to get to the playoffs, should the Jazz as an organisation cater to his goal over their own? Of course not. They want to keep Lauri because they try to build a championship team and believe he is a core piece... which leads me to the next point
  2. Lauri said this to Sam Amick when we were at the bottom this season and he was in the trade rumors: "I look at that as a compliment to you that teams are interested in you and it’s a credit to what you’ve done in the past and how you work...I’ve kind of learned to just go day by day and really put the work in and try to play to the best of my abilities and whatever happens happens, really. Like I said, I love being in Utah and it’s a compliment of what you’ve done in the past (that teams have interest). We’ll see. But yeah, I just want to emphasize that I really believe in what we’re building here with the Jazz. Go day by day. Do your best. That’s all you can do."
So if Lauri WANTS TO EMPHASIZE that he "believes in what we're building here with the Jazz", then doesnt that suggest he knows what the organisation is trying to do here? And also that he knows they are building and not there yet.
 
Tanktastic said:
I said nothing of the kind. I was responding to you saying that playing Hendricks, Sensa and (more) Keyonte, raises the ceiling vs. the guys we traded. It doesn't. It lowers it, a lot.

I get it. Everyone is going through the stages of grief and most haven't got past the "bargaining" phase. But let's not kid ourselves. Playing Hendricks instead of KO doesn't raise the ceiling. That's just silly.


The Mavs traded for Kyrie Irving at the deadline. That's the exact opposite of trying to tank, that's going all-in.
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They did get Kyrie, but when the question was try for the playin or tank the end of the season and retain the draft pick, they tanked.
 
Tanktastic said:
What he has actually said, in numerous interviews, is wanting to make the playoffs and compete in them.
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Thats cool. We were a 10 seed before the trade, we are still a 10 seed, and now have 10 straight winnable games in a row coming up. I guess he is probably super stoked then.
 
Okay, I'm sorry I opened a thread like this, it was trade deadline frustration,partly. But as the article suggesting I posted in another thread, about rest of the season plans... This approach last Feb. and now, holds also threats - players under contracts might grow tired of breaking a good thing going, and it might make incoming players wonder if and when the Jazz fo actually gonna let them cook. Or will they all just end up to some Charlotte or Detroit for assets. 2025 still has a good chance to be a third season like exactly this, and at some point it might become too taxing mentally.
 
Step-Back Lauri said:
Okay, I'm sorry I opened a thread like this, it was trade deadline frustration,partly. But as the article suggesting I posted in another thread, about rest of the season plans... This approach last Feb. and now, holds also threats - players under contracts might grow tired of breaking a good thing going, and it might make incoming players wonder if and when the Jazz fo actually gonna let them cook. Or will they all just end up to some Charlotte or Detroit for assets. 2025 still has a good chance to be a third season like exactly this, and at some point it might become too taxing mentally.
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We all get frustrated at times. I was frustrated last February, especially as we improved Minnesota who'se draft we own. Later I realized that helping the Lakers and Wolves hurt the Mavs (in addition to helping us get a higher pick and add talent), so it was actually not that bad. Mavs are nearing the end of their rope and if they are a 1st round exit or miss the playoffs entirely, it could be that the 4D chess worked.

I still dont like that LA trade... but mainly because I just dont like the value of it especialy with the protection. I feel like DA could have negotiated a better deal for those guys. This time around we did a lot better, and got very good value for two 20 mpg backups and one guy who was breaking out in a contract year. With guys like that, there is always a risk they get paid more than they deserve as someone is willing to gamble with them. Now that risk belongs to Detroit, who were likely gonna offer him a bag anyways in the offseason, which we would have had to match.

Time will tell if we did the right thing in giving up on Ochai and Simone, but I'm pretty confident they wont turn into some star level players, so what we gave up was two perennial role players.
 
HermanG said:
  1. If Lauri's goal wasnt to win a championship but just to get to the playoffs, should the Jazz as an organisation cater to his goal over their own? Of course not.
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No-one has suggested that.

But you were putting some words in his mouth, when it's clear that is not his view.

Lauri (and all players on the roster) have some goals overlap with the FO's goals. And some that don't. If the FO is working towards something quite different than what the player is, then it might become a problem.
 
Tanktastic said:
No-one has suggested that.

But you were putting some words in his mouth, when it's clear that is not his view.

Lauri (and all players on the roster) have some goals overlap with the FO's goals. And some that don't. If the FO is working towards something quite different than what the player is, then it might become a problem.
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You are putting thoughts in his head and that is your whole argument here. You say he might become unhappy now because his goals for this season were not catered to.

My whole argument is based on Lauri being extremely happy to be living and playing in Utah, which he has repeated so many times I've lost count.
 
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