You can say that as often as you want, it doesn't make it correct.
What's your explanation for early OKC success?
- Thread starter idiot
- Start date
You can say that as often as you want, it doesn't make it correct.
Is that true? I haven't rummaged thru the game logs, but I seem to remember him being out on the floor at the end of games.
According to the game logs he was in the last minutes of the Pelicans game, a game the Jazz won by 4 points.
The Blue Elephant
Well-Known Member
Enes Kanter is playing with PG's who shoot 36% or worse. Dante Exum has shot 21% last 10 games. He is playing with the worst pg's in the league. Trey Burke had one of his best games last game he has ever had. He got 19 points in 20 shots. He can't defend. Trey Burke literally is one of the worst pg's in the NBA no matter what aspect of the game you look at. Yet he is getting minutes to develop. The Utah Jazz just shouldn't have drafted Kanter and should have drafted Klay Thompson, or Kawhi Leonard. Even brandon knight potentially. Read the article I posted above I think it a great read by slcdunk
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Garbage minutes? The guy started and played 27/per. And that's BS about closing out games. He did early in the season and then Snyder would make defensive/offensive substitutions. There were many games Gobert would come in, Kanter would go out and then the reverse would happen if the clock was stopped for a Utah offensive possession.
All you Kanter lovers have YET to answer the one question I have repeatedly posed. If Corbn's coaching staff was so bad at developing players, how do you explain the amazing progress Hayward and Favors made. And even Gobert from Season #1 to the Summer League and World Cup. They all had the same coaches as Enes did.
The Blue Elephant
Well-Known Member
You are right. Me posting it often doesn't make it right. The fact that it is factual makes it right.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
I did read the article, AllThatAmar has written several laughable articles. He even claims Kanter should have played in the DLEague and that Utah doesn't use their DLeague team to develop players like other teams do. Yeah, right. Tell me what other lottery pciks have been sent down for a notable period of time. I wonder how Kanter and Ergul would have reacted to that?
As I said, Enes had played ZERO minutes of college basketball the year before the draft. Do you make him starter? No, you give him sub minutes. The nest season, he COULD gripe. IINM, he averaged about 15 mins. But it sure looks like Big Al spent time teaching him some great offensive moves and footwork. I'd call that even more valuable than playing 25 mins. His third season the Jazz were FULLY committed to him. They made him a STARTER. But go back and look at those games. He was HORRIBLE on defense. So he was brought off the bench but STILL got the same number of minutes. Jazz were putting him in a position where defense was less important AND where he could be a HIGHER option on offense. And they brought him back as a STARTER again this season. And AGAIN he struggled on defense. But Quin stuck with him, kept him as the starter.
But then he makes his trade demand and his agent shows their true colors by using the draft position as a reason for entitlement. Look, I have no hard feelings towards Enes. But I get furious at those who say the Jazz didn't invest in his development, didn't give him opportunities. You bring up the PG situation. Yes, I agree; they both are terrible and something needs to be done about it. I wish we had borderline all-stars at guard positions so Dante and Trey would only play 15 mins/per. Then, if they improved enough, we'd let the contract of the vet expire so one of them could move into the starting lineup - JUST AS WE DID AFTER ENES' 2ND SEASON.
CAKAR
Well-Known Member
First of all thank you for you long answer.
No, I do not think that they should have played him infront of AL. I say that it was an absolute mistake to draft Kanter, while still having AL and Lil´sap on the team + Favors. The rebuild should have started 2011 or the Jazz should have gone another direction from the beginning...
Enes Kanter with 19 years of age was a raw bull, with need of playing time. Every one who has scouted him has said, that he needed playing time desperately.
They should either keep AL and Sap and not draft Enes. Or draft Enes and letting the rebuild begin 2011.... In his rockie year Kanter would easily average a double double.
You can call it "empty stat" but 19 year old Kanter avreging 12 points, 12 rebounds would have kept everyone exiting on this board. And he would have huge value if he was a starter from the beginning right now...
The rebuild just came to late... Imagine Utah drafting Damien Lillard ?
Lillard
Hayward
Carroll
Favors
Kanter
That would have been a heck of talent... or the other direction around...
Mo, Garret
Klay Thompson, Burks
Hayward, Carrol
Milsap, Favors
AL, Gobert
The Blue Elephant
Well-Known Member
Kanter played the most minutes per game in December, he played less in Jan, and even less in Feb.
Derrick Favors, Rudy, and Gordon Hayward's biggest jumps in progress came this year, not in years past with Corbin.
How has Trey Burke and Dante Exum been developing throughout this year? Kanter, Favors, Gobert, Hayward. I love all these guys and people like you make it seem like if we don't blame Kanter entirely for his failure in Utah that we are somehow blaming the Gobert and Favors. Yet you ignore just how abysmal Dante and Exum have been playing.
The Blue Elephant
Well-Known Member
I think we all agree that the Jazz shouldn't have drafted Enes Kanter and just leave our disagreements to ourselves and move on.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
I agree that is a good article. Thanks for sharing.
Enes was our first #3 pick that we actually selected, and spent enough time here for me be to interested in his career well beyond us. He's like a good friend going away to college.
Sexual Favors
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Taking BPA, while good if you are good at asset management, can bite you in the *** even if thy begin to develop, because you also have to make fit for these people. These are people first and foremost.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
No, I don't. First of all, Favors has improved every year. And so did Hayward in many facets of his game, until his shooting took a nosedive last season. Trey is probably a bust. He certainly has not earned starter minutes. Exum is a project. He probably should be gettin 10 mins/per. Unfortunately, we don't have an established starter at PG. It's an area that needs to be addressed. Ideally, Utah would have had a GOOD veteran in place (i'm not talking JLIII or Tinsley) when Trey was drafted. Then - just like we did with Enes - that veteran could be let go as Trey proved worthy of starting. If Trey was playing strong in Year #2 but that veteran was leading us on a playoff push, well I'd expect for Trey to want more playing time. But I'd also expect him to be happy we were contending for the playoffs and waited until after the season to let our veteran go. After all, in this scenario, coming into the season, we THOUGHT we saw some promise, but didn't know if he'd be quite ready to be a starter.
And the same with Exum. I've advocated all along for the Jazz to get a STARTING PG. I've stated that is their BIGGEST need - not a wing. Trey should be traded since Exum shows more potential. But Dante shouldn't get more than 15-18 mins as the backup UNTIL he's ready. Then you trade that vet or let his contract simply expire and give the reins to Exum. Utah did exactly that after Enes' 2nd season. I'd say that was pretty fair. He was shorted some minutes his 2nd season. That's it. But then the Jazz handed him the starting job. And he fumbled it by being ATROCIOUS on defense. Maybe there really was something to what Richard Jefferson said about Enes not caring about defense.
As for this year, yes, his minutes were dwindling, He had a couple of months to prove he was going to be a workhorse and a franchise big for Utah. He failed to do that on the defensive end. On the other hand, Gobert was having some amazing games as a backup. Jazz made the call (Lindsey admitted they had already been shopping Enes earlier in the season) and Enes made it easier by making the trade demand.
Stifle Tower
Punch Bowl Re-Filler
Well, we have also said you don't just draft for need. Apparently BPA was Kanter. Drafting for need would have given us Knight. In hindsight, yes, it may have been a better choice. But also, how did we know we'd draft Rudy Gobert two years later and he'd develop this rapidly? Bigs are pretty hard to get, and I think KOC was looking at Favors/Kanter being our future. And it could very well have been that if not for Rudy beasting.
But better it happened now and we learned that Kanter wants a max deal. Even without Gobert, I'm not sure DL was willing to go that high.I'm not sorry Utah drafted Enes. I'm sorry he wouldn't stay as part of the rotation for a reasonable deal (maybe $12M - same as Favors?). That would have been an amazing rotation for us. OKC is very lucky to have him. It was really a no lose deal for them. They HAVE to contend NOW. And they had to get a big to replace Adams. When he returns they have an amazing rotation. Actually they have that now. Adams might be the future, but they're getting great production from Collison and McGary to go along with Ibaka and Kanter.
Quite the crowded frontcourt when Adams is back. They also signed Collision to a two year extension, but Kanter has the most talent of them behind Ibaka so he still should get quality PT.
The Blue Elephant
Well-Known Member
Drafting for BPA is great when someone is clearly the best player. However Kanter was a big risk. One that shouldn't have been taken with Al, Paul, and Dfav with the 3rd pick.
railroadtycoon
New Member
Hello
I am from turkish posters group what i'm going to sum up is the truth .
Kanter ain't that good player, he was always overrated in his offensive skills and his defensive instincts are abysmal at best.
He is also not a legit 6.11 player but 6.9 at best that makes him undersized center combining with his pathetic vertical reach making him a starter before gobert was a huge mistake. If gobert did start for jazz for the entire season with 30+ minutes you guys could be 50/50 team.
Now with the okc situation, what he accomplished with them in 2 games is just sheer luck for him .he replaced former center(perkins) who is one of the worst in league made enes look like gasol out there faced against the 2 poor teams .
If that mcgary guy did start he would average 12-10 in those games hell even gobert would be like 15-15-5-5
So wait for ten games he ll be like 8-7-0,2 regular enes soon.
mark my words he is the worst center in okc squad.
have fun
I am from turkish posters group what i'm going to sum up is the truth .
Kanter ain't that good player, he was always overrated in his offensive skills and his defensive instincts are abysmal at best.
He is also not a legit 6.11 player but 6.9 at best that makes him undersized center combining with his pathetic vertical reach making him a starter before gobert was a huge mistake. If gobert did start for jazz for the entire season with 30+ minutes you guys could be 50/50 team.
Now with the okc situation, what he accomplished with them in 2 games is just sheer luck for him .he replaced former center(perkins) who is one of the worst in league made enes look like gasol out there faced against the 2 poor teams .
If that mcgary guy did start he would average 12-10 in those games hell even gobert would be like 15-15-5-5
So wait for ten games he ll be like 8-7-0,2 regular enes soon.
mark my words he is the worst center in okc squad.
have fun
jimmy eat jazz
Well-Known Member
While I think Amar is at times overly polemical, I agree with his main argument: the Jazz FO and coaching staff mishandled Kanter and did not develop him properly. Frankly, I think the biggest culprit was Corbin and his dogged insistence on playing journeymen vets for the sake of a couple more wins at the expense of player development, and his tendency (at least in my opinion) to make Kanter his whipping boy.
Just want to say a few words about this.
The problem was, first 2 years of his career Utah focused on Big Al and Millsap. I'm not saying Kanter should have been the starter nor the main focus. But he was completely ignored for 2 years. His development was the last thing it seemed.
But the worst thing here is: why? For what did Utah focus on Big Al and Millsap? Can you tell me the big important reason behind this decision? What was so much more important than developing your 3rd pick?
Let's say there was a reason. Alright, I'm fine with it.
Now tell me why did Utah let them walk away then? If there was a reason that their roles were more important instead of Kanter's role, why the hell you let BOTH of them go away then? If you were going to let them walk away for nothing, why didn't you use the years before in developing Kanter, so he can start after they go?
Now, what about the third year. Let's say there was a reason for the first 2 years. Alright, fine. But now Al and Millsap are gone.
What about this 3rd year. What is now the reason for not developing him? There was no Gobert.
Why did he only start in 37 games that year? Explain me. Was Utah going for a playoff seed? Utah was last in Western that year.
Again Kanter got fooled for NOTHING. 3 years wasted.
Now finally 4th year. Starting. 27 minutes average looks fine.
But look closer.
I watched nearly all Jazz games this year.
Tell me who was the first guy ALWAYS switched with another player? No matter what happened?
Tell me how often Snyder benched Kanter for every mistake he did. It is ok if a coach benchs a player if he sucks for that game. But it is UNFAIR if he does this only to one player regularly and never to others. There were a lot of games were the other players sucked and he kept them playing no matter. Specially in the 4th quarter.
And in addition to his.
Kanter was always the 5th option in the offence. Almost no existent runs made for him. The only runs for this center were those open jumpers he had to take. A center taking a lot of jumpers.
And this is in my opinion the reason why he had almost no assists in games or he was so egoistic. Because the only way to put his wished numbers was to be selfish, else he would have averaged sth like 7 points a game. Because he was ignored, he went on selfish mode.
And the last reason is Gobert. It is awesome that Jazz has Gobert. But it isn't awesome for Kanter. Because finally, where he is the starter now and gets time for his development, now someone else is rising and threatening his position. And slowly it began again. All people wanted Gobert start instead of Kanter and Snyder showed some signs that this will maybe the future.
See it from his view. 3 year you got fooled and now another year. It was too much and he asked for a trade. Better for him and for Gobert.
Ok...so why not demand a trade when, hell I don't know...Corbin was coaching.
I watch every game as well, and this is just pure fantasy.