Will a Jazz player take a knee during the National Anthem this year?

[Tak]

At the risk of repeating myself, the shirt Kaepernick wore was not a Castro shirt or a shirt celebrating the life and career of Castro. It was a Malcolm X meets with Castro in Harlem shirt.

The meeting was in 1960, shortly after the Cuban revolution and before Castro went on to commit the worst of his crimes. At the meeting Castro spoke out against black oppression, this was four years before the Civil Rights Act and still a year before the last documented lynching in the United States, so it should be easy to understand why he was warmly received in Harlem and why the meeting with Malcolm X is still seen as iconic to many in the black community. It had nothing to do with communism. Castro didn’t declare himself a Marxist/Leninist until more that a year later in December 1961.

Kaepernick understood the story behind the meeting depicted on his shirt much better than those who keep repeating the stupid canard that it had anything to do with communism. To Kaepernick the shirt illustrated that more than fifty years ago Malcolm X was inviting foreign leaders to Harlem to speak out against black oppression and yet it still continues, to the extent that he wanted to do his own small part by sitting down while others stand.

How does a "Look, Malcolm X invited this piece of **** to speak on behalf of us before he became a piece of ****" shirt looks good on Kaepernick or on anybody for that matter?

 

[Gameface]

How does a "Look, Malcolm X invited this piece of **** to speak on behalf of us before he became a piece of ****" shirt looks good on Kaepernick or on anybody for that matter?

Most people in the U.S. saw Castro as a hero before he went with the Soviets instead of the U.S..

The U.S. would have gladly taken him on as an ally after the revolution, and they would have painted him as every bit a hero and you would be sitting here calling him a freedom fighter right now instead of a piece of ****.

tl;dr before people in the U.S. hated Castro they loved him

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

Just wow. When did the people of one of the greatest nations ever built turn into this bunch of insecure *******?

We live in the greatest nation ever, so we've learned to be spoiled assholes, plus we have the freedom to be dicks!!

Cool, sounds like you ran out of an argument and are just shouting embarrassing things again. Good luck lil buddy.

How many owners, coaches and front office people are black? No player has been talented enough to make the NBA but cut because they were white.

Only an idiot responds to that idiot Dutch!!

Did you over serve in the military?

 

[Ron Mexico]

Only an idiot responds to that idiot Dutch!!

Nah, its easy to prove him wrong and I know for a fact that people read what he writes and sometimes agree with the bad information he posts. There are many more people who read and post on here that agree with him. It gives a good opportunity to show the other side. It also strengthens my argument when he is the one on the other side, so it makes it easier to convince people. I also dont think he is an idiot.

 

[Tak]

Most people in the U.S. saw Castro as a hero before he went with the Soviets instead of the U.S..

The U.S. would have gladly taken him on as an ally after the revolution, and they would have painted him as every bit a hero and you would be sitting here calling him a freedom fighter right now instead of a piece of ****.

tl;dr before people in the U.S. hated Castro they loved him

He could have been America's sweetheart and Jimmy Stewart's girlfriend for all I care, but that doesn't exempt him of what he did later in Cuba, and doesn't justify people sporting shirts featuring him in 2017.

Pinochet's coup in Chile was largely supported by the local population, he even received the U.S. stamp of approval and plenty of C.I.A. support, is it OK to sport shirts with his face now?

 

[Thee Jazz Fan]

Nah, its easy to prove him wrong and I know for a fact that people read what he writes and sometimes agree with the bad information he posts. There are many more people who read and post on here that agree with him. It gives a good opportunity to show the other side. It also strengthens my argument when he is the one on the other side, so it makes it easier to convince people. I also dont think he is an idiot.

I wanted to post the definition for idiot, but I don't want to get banned


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ron Mexico]

I wanted to post the definition for idiot, but I don't want to get banned


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think you have defined that plenty of times. We all get it, its your schtick to call everyone an idiot while pretending to be one on the board, very funny.

 

[Ron Mexico]

He could have been America's sweetheart and Jimmy Stewart's girlfriend for all I care, but that doesn't exempt him of what he did later in Cuba, and doesn't justify people sporting shirts featuring him in 2017.

Pinochet's coup in Chile was largely supported by the local population, he even received the U.S. stamp of approval and plenty of C.I.A. support, is it OK to sport shirts with his face now?

Is it okay to wear shirts of presidents of the USA that have done terrible things? Is it okay to celebrate US even though it has committed awful acts? I think so. It is all relative.

His shirt was not of just fidel. It was of a meaningful event in US history.

I wont defend Castro because he did awful things but we also celebrate others it just depends on the situation. Nelson Mandela for example is celebrated as a hero for the great things he did. But many people ignore the fact that he orchestrated bombings that killed innocent people. It can be perspective sometimes. Castro did do some good things in his life along with some terrible things.

 

[Stoked]

He could have been America's sweetheart and Jimmy Stewart's girlfriend for all I care, but that doesn't exempt him of what he did later in Cuba, and doesn't justify people sporting shirts featuring him in 2017.

Pinochet's coup in Chile was largely supported by the local population, he even received the U.S. stamp of approval and plenty of C.I.A. support, is it OK to sport shirts with his face now?

Legally? Yes, it's OK.

Morally? Well, morality has always been a tricky thing.

 

[Tak]

Is it okay to wear shirts of presidents of the USA that have done terrible things? Is it okay to celebrate US even though it has committed awful acts? I think so. It is all relative.

His shirt was not of just fidel. It was of a meaningful event in US history.

I wont defend Castro because he did awful things but we also celebrate others it just depends on the situation. Nelson Mandela for example is celebrated as a hero for the great things he did. But many people ignore the fact that he orchestrated bombings that killed innocent people. It can be perspective sometimes. Castro did do some good things in his life along with some terrible things.

Almost every famous political character did good things along bad things in their lives, Hitler was the first modern chief of state to institute animal rights laws for example, but I don't see PETA, WWF or the Humane Association celebrating that. The problem is how much are we going to forget the bad deeds in order to push for what we see as just or right. Mandela is a great example, i'm sure the families of his victims were thrilled when he became an international icon for peace.

If it's OK for some people to see the good things in those controversial political characters, then it's OK for other people to remind them all the crap they have done, specially if that crap meant the death of innocent people.

 

[Tak]

Legally? Yes, it's OK.

Morally? Well, morality has always been a tricky thing.

I know morality is a tricky thing, but in this case it shouldn't be that hard:

Why don't we use Pinochet's t-shirts? -> Because he sent innocent people to die.
But he did rescued his country from poverty and chaos -> Innocent. People. Dead.

Why don't we use Castro's t-shirts? -> Because he sent innocent people to die.
But he did come to the U.S. to speak in favor of people's rights -> Innocent. People. Dead.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Almost every famous political character did good things along bad things in their lives, Hitler was the first modern chief of state to institute animal rights laws for example, but I don't see PETA, WWF or the Humane Association celebrating that. The problem is how much are we going to forget the bad deeds in order to push for what we see as just or right. Mandela is a great example, i'm sure the families of his victims were thrilled when he became an international icon for peace.

If it's OK for some people to see the good things in those controversial political characters, then it's OK for other people to remind them all the crap they have done, specially if that crap meant the death of innocent people.

Definitely not arguing you can't call people out for things you don't like. I don't see his shirt as honoring Castro but if you do I could see that being bothersome. I see it as honoring that event that was significant.

There are worse things that are not being called out though including things done by our country and leaders. Including things done to Cuba by our country and leaders.

I also see his argument that this country and racists policy and people are responsible for more deaths and mistreatment of innocent people than what Castro did individually. It's obviously a complicated issue.

The reality to me is it's sad that racism is still so pervasive in our society and still hurting people. It's embarrassing that we still need to fight for these rights but the fact is we do. Maybe this isn't the perfect way to do it but I think it's better than the violent ways others have had to fight for those basic human rights in the past.