Will a Jazz player take a knee during the National Anthem this year?

[framer]

Definitely not arguing you can't call people out for things you don't like. I don't see his shirt as honoring Castro but if you do I could see that being bothersome. I see it as honoring that event that was significant.

There are worse things that are not being called out though including things done by our country and leaders. Including things done to Cuba by our country and leaders.

I also see his argument that this country and racists policy and people are responsible for more deaths and mistreatment of innocent people than what Castro did individually. It's obviously a complicated issue.

The reality to me is it's sad that racism is still so pervasive in our society and still hurting people. It's embarrassing that we still need to fight for these rights but the fact is we do. Maybe this isn't the perfect way to do it but I think it's better than the violent ways others have had to fight for those basic human rights in the past.

Denouncing Castro is not a damn "complicated issue." Just stop. If you disagree with Castro he has you jailed or killed. Every time. There are no dissidents living freely in Cuba. That is not equal to things Trump does. It is far worse that whatever slights Kap is yelling about. What Castro does is NOT the fault of American imperialism. When activists that may have a good point start reflexively defending Castro, they can go to hell. Don't care about them or their support of whatever their cause is.

 

[Tak]

Definitely not arguing you can't call people out for things you don't like. I don't see his shirt as honoring Castro but if you do I could see that being bothersome. I see it as honoring that event that was significant.

There are worse things that are not being called out though including things done by our country and leaders. Including things done to Cuba by our country and leaders.

I also see his argument that this country and racists policy and people are responsible for more deaths and mistreatment of innocent people than what Castro did individually. It's obviously a complicated issue.

The reality to me is it's sad that racism is still so pervasive in our society and still hurting people. It's embarrassing that we still need to fight for these rights but the fact is we do. Maybe this isn't the perfect way to do it but I think it's better than the violent ways others have had to fight for those basic human rights in the past.

I understand the need to put racism in the conversation, that's out of the question, I just can't understand or condone to evoke the figure of a human rights offender when you are supposed to champion human rights yourself. As Framer said, it shouldn't be complicated to denounce a dictator, no matter their death toll in comparison to others.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I understand the need to put racism in the conversation, that's out of the question, I just can't understand or condone to evoke the figure of a human rights offender when you are supposed to champion human rights yourself. As Framer said, it shouldn't be complicated to denounce a dictator, no matter their death toll in comparison to others.

Umm. Racism is what this conversation is about... Lol.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Denouncing Castro is not a damn "complicated issue." Just stop. If you disagree with Castro he has you jailed or killed. Every time. There are no dissidents living freely in Cuba. That is not equal to things Trump does. It is far worse that whatever slights Kap is yelling about. What Castro does is NOT the fault of American imperialism. When activists that may have a good point start reflexively defending Castro, they can go to hell. Don't care about them or their support of whatever their cause is.

Yes, Kap wasn't wearing a shirt of just Castro or supporting him. That is what's being discussed.

 

[Tak]

Umm. Racism is what this conversation is about... Lol.

I was talking about the need to put racism in the social conversation, along with other human rights issues as something that needs to be addressed, I wasn't referring to this particular conversation. Unwarranted Lol.

 

[Ron Mexico]

I was talking about the need to put racism in the social conversation, along with other human rights issues as something that needs to be addressed, I wasn't referring to this particular conversation. Unwarranted Lol.

The issue is racism. You are trying to distract the message and attack the person championing a good cause by condemning him because of a shirt that is a shirt supporting castro. Yes, I agree Castro did terrible things. I dont support him. Trying to attack Kap is simply shifting away from the real issue and attacking him misguided. That moment was meaningful for the black rights movement. That is what was being celebrated in the shirt. That moment isnt one I fully understand and it sounds like neither do you but I know it is meaningful to human rights in the US.

That is what this entire discussion is about. Including that shirt and that moment.

 

[framer]

Yes, Kap wasn't wearing a shirt of just Castro or supporting him. That is what's being discussed.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article117033883.html

So if Trump wore a shirt with Hitler speaking to Charles Lindbergh that is perfectly acceptable because Charles Lindbergh is awesome? I the only available photo of Malcom X the one where he is posing with Castro? Kaep has no problem with Castro. He defended Castro to the reporter in the article I referenced. The reporter was born in Havana. . .

 

[Ron Mexico]

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/armando-salguero/article117033883.html

So if Trump wore a shirt with Hitler speaking to Charles Lindbergh that is perfectly acceptable because Charles Lindbergh is awesome? I the only available photo of Malcom X the one where he is posing with Castro? Kaep has no problem with Castro. He defended Castro to the reporter in the article I referenced. The reporter was born in Havana. . .

If it was a meaningful event in the context of the current movement an relevant than yes. That doesn't exist though.

I also don't find issues or people black and white. Kap isn't perfect. Castro did some great things along with some awful things, just like most leaders including our own.

 

[Tak]

The issue is racism. You are trying to distract the message and attack the person championing a good cause by condemning him because of a shirt that is a shirt supporting castro. Yes, I agree Castro did terrible things. I dont support him. Trying to attack Kap is simply shifting away from the real issue and attacking him misguided. That moment was meaningful for the black rights movement. That is what was being celebrated in the shirt. That moment isnt one I fully understand and it sounds like neither do you but I know it is meaningful to human rights in the US.

That is what this entire discussion is about. Including that shirt and that moment.

Please tell me where I have said something against Kaepernick as a person or against his character, I don't even know the man because I don't follow the NFL. Thinking that i'm trying to attack "Kap" or distract the message, basically putting an intentionality in my words that I haven't stated is what muddle the whole attempt to have a meaningful discussion about this subject.

It's not hard understand that the use of the image of a known humans rights offender to back up a humans right issue is a contradiction at best, that people can disagree with that, and that particular disagreement doesn't mean that they are against that person or the message that person is trying to convey. In other hand, if you think that a good cause and the people that champions it are automatically immune to criticism, then you're dangerously close to zealotry.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Please tell me where I have said something against Kaepernick as a person or against his character, I don't even know the man because I don't follow the NFL. Thinking that i'm trying to attack "Kap" or distract the message, basically putting an intentionality in my words that I haven't stated is what muddle the whole attempt to have a meaningful discussion about this subject.

It's not hard understand that the use of the image of a known humans rights offender to back up a humans right issue is a contradiction at best, that people can disagree with that, and that particular disagreement doesn't mean that they are against that person or the message that person is trying to convey. In other hand, if you think that a good cause and the people that champions it are automatically immune to criticism, then you're dangerously close to zealotry.

I definitely don't think you can't criticised him, I disagree with your specific criticism. I am sure Kap has plenty of things he has done wrong. I also feel this is focusing on a silly non issue that distracts from a real issue. By nature saying bad things about what someone is wearing and that message is by nature saying bad things about him. It's not a bubble. It's a common strategy used way by many to hurt what someone is saying. To find other things to make them look bad.

 

[Engorged On Unborn Gore]

If Kennedy is allowed some bad moments (Bay of pigs, Tito) then Castro should be allowed a good moment or two.

That moment with Malcom X should be viewed within the time and place wherein it occurred. Being open and honest about history means checking propaganda at the door.

 

[Tak]

I definitely don't think you can't criticised him, I disagree with your specific criticism. I am sure Kap has plenty of things he has done wrong. I also feel this is focusing on a silly non issue that distracts from a real issue. By nature saying bad things about what someone is wearing and that message is by nature saying bad things about him. It's not a bubble. It's a common strategy used way by many to hurt what someone is saying. To find other things to make them look bad.

And by nature wearing a t-shirt with the effigy of someone means that I endorse or support that someone, not a bubble either.

Look, as I said I don't know Kaepernick and I can only assume he meant well, but wearing that shirt is not going to help his discourse if his goal is to raise awareness about human rights.