Will Donovan Mitchell surpass Stockton/Malone careers with the Jazz?

[MVP]

First thing Donovan needs to do when he will get his next big pay cheque is to copy Lebron's recipes for taking care of his body and invest in all the same bells and whistles what LBJ has. I read LBJ spends 1.5 mil a year on his body and conditioning, diet, physiotherapy, massages,ice tubs, hyperbaric chamber, etc. When you read how carefully LeBron treats and takes care of his body and then remember how Fesenko used to smoke daily and eat chips and burgers you realise that sometimes it is not only about talent...

https://www.businessinsider.com/lebron-james-body-care-workouts-diet-insane-2017-10

 

[oneye]

Also just as a side note, this guy deserves some hype as well. I notice he constantly likes things when guys say they’re going to stay loyal to their team, and then he liked this today. Rudy is a gem. If nothing else I think Rudy will ride or die with us.

 

[Ron Mexico]

View attachment 6206 Also just as a side note, this guy deserves some hype as well. I notice he constantly likes things when guys say they’re going to stay loyal to their team, and then he liked this today. Rudy is a gem. If nothing else I think Rudy will ride or die with us.

Good for him, he only needed the largest possible pay day to stay.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

John and Karl accomplished a hell of a lot, and despite not winning a ring, had two HOF careers that lasted 2 decades. Can/will Donovan surpass that with this franchise?

If he surpasses this mark by having three HOF careers that last 2 decades each I will be very, very impressed.

 

[Joe Bagadonuts]

No.

He has to have a great and long career and win a championship surpass them. If if he has a great and long career, odds are very likely he won't touch Stock and Malone. This is not a dish on Mitchell either.

Don't worry about this post. It's not a dish on you.

 

[Archie Moses]

Don't worry about this post. It's not a dish on you.

I hate dirty dishes.

 

[LogGrad98]

Well, he's certainly ahead of them, by far, at this stage of their careers. As CP3 said, he has no limits. No matter the stats, because they're based to some extent on longevity, if he can bring championships to the Jazz and be here at least 10 years with All-NBA first team selections, then for sure.

You would have seen a different outcome if Stockton hadn't been the understudy to Ricky Green, a proven all-star at PG already, and Malone wasn't playing second fiddle to Dantley, one of the premier post players in the league and top pure scorers ever. We forget the Jazz had some decent players already at that time, just had not put the roster together to really compete yet. Take AD and Green out of the mix, put the ball in Stockton's hands from day 1 and he would have produced. He was just that kind of player. Same for Malone.

Hell Malone averaged 15 and 9 his rookie year, 22 and 10 in year 2 and freaking 28 and 12 his 3rd, his rookie year playing second fiddle to one of the premier post-scorers in the league. How would Donovan have fared with say, Hayword taking the all-star track to higher shots and points? He would have likely gotten around 14 ppg and been in discussion for all-rookie team, might have broken out, who knows?

Today that kind of output from a rookie would be viewed as top of the class. Hell it was then. He was all-rookie 1st team. Took him only 2 years to be all-nba and all-defensive team.

Stockton's per36 for his rookie year put him at 11 ppg, 10 apg and almost 3 steals. How would he have fared in control and not Rickey Green?

To say that Mitchell has far surpassed them even at this point in their careers is disingenuous if not just flat out ********, let alone to say "by far". The situations are different. The real test will be years 2-4 when Malone and Stockton both broke out to be among the very best at their position ever in the NBA (Stockton, year 4, 15 ppg, 14 apg, 3 spg, all-nba 2nd team; Malone, year 3, 28 ppg, 12 rpg, 2.4 spg, all-nba 2nd team, all defensive 2nd team.)

[interesting note, both Stock and Malone broke out in the same year, with significant jumps in both of their output from the previous year, that year was 87-88, and Malone's fi).

We forget so easily.

 

[oneye]

Good for him, he only needed the largest possible pay day to stay.

Guys should get paid, and if he was actually just looking for the biggest payday he would have either stayed in Indiana where he was eligible for a $220 million max contract, or did a 1 and 1 deal, which would have made him eligible for a much larger payday in 2 years when he gets past 10 seasons. Actually no, you don't know what you're talking about. He could have gotten a much bigger payday elsewhere, or signed a 1 and 1 deal and had the option to leave again after two seasons and got a lot more money. Here's Windhorst's reaction and explaining it a bit, know how NBA contracts work before you criticize.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Guys should get paid, and if he was actually just looking for the biggest payday he would have either stayed in Indiana where he was eligible for a $220 million max contract, or did a 1 and 1 deal, which would have made him eligible for a much larger payday in 2 years when he gets past 10 seasons. Actually no, you don't know what you're talking about. He could have gotten a much bigger payday elsewhere, or signed a 1 and 1 deal and had the option to leave again after two seasons and got a lot more money. Here's Windhorst's reaction and explaining it a bit, know how NBA contracts work before you criticize.

He didnt leave Indiana he was traded. There were rumors that he might not re-sign, which is why they traded him.

Lol, someone is testy and defensive of PG13 for some reason.

I also dont disagree that he shouldnt get paid. But I think money was the reason he stayed in OKC. Yes he could have tried to get paid in a future contract but that is risky. Especially with how he played in the last game, where he clearly quit on his team and didnt care.

But he took the most amount of money guaranteed he could right now. I dont know that he will be worth a max after 2 more seasons of play. Nor does he know that.

Personally I would have taken the deal he did as well with OKC. But not because I like it there, or the best chance to win, because its the most guaranteed money right now.

 

[oneye]

He didnt leave Indiana he was traded. There were rumors that he might not re-sign, which is why they traded him.

Lol, someone is testy and defensive of PG13 for some reason.

I also dont disagree that he shouldnt get paid. But I think money was the reason he stayed in OKC. Yes he could have tried to get paid in a future contract but that is risky. Especially with how he played in the last game, where he clearly quit on his team and didnt care.

But he took the most amount of money guaranteed he could right now. I dont know that he will be worth a max after 2 more seasons of play. Nor does he know that.

Personally I would have taken the deal he did as well with OKC. But not because I like it there, or the best chance to win, because its the most guaranteed money right now.

The Lakers could have given him the exact same contract.

 

[Ron Mexico]

The Lakers could have given him the exact same contract.

They could only offer 4.5% raises. OKC gave him 8% raises.

 

[oneye]

They could only offer 4.5% raises. OKC gave him 8% raises.

Trust me, those tiny raises aren't anything compared to the endorsement increases he would have seen. To act like the money was such a huge difference is asinine. Hayward could have had the extra year, and raises on his deal as well. PG stayed loyal to OKC and Russ. He in no way had to resign there to get paid. Period.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Trust me, those tiny raises aren't anything compared to the endorsement increases he would have seen. To act like the money was such a huge difference is asinine. Hayward could have had the extra year, and raises on his deal as well. PG stayed loyal to OKC and Russ. He in no way had to resign there to get paid. Period.

I dont. I also dont see it as being loyal to a team he has been with for 1 year that he quit on in the playoffs and seemed to not care about winning for a good chunk of the year. He took the largest guarantee money he could. Maybe he is also friends with Russ and wants to hang out with him. I think it has 0 to do with OKC, the team, and especially to trying to win there. I think he would have re-signed in Indiana for a super max if they had held on to him.

He might get more endorsements in LA, but I am not sure of that. He would be over shadowed by Lebron there. Plus his brand is national anyways. I doubt it matters that much anymore unless you are a big star in a big city, which he is not.

 

[oneye]

I dont. I also dont see it as being loyal to a team he has been with for 1 year that he quit on in the playoffs and seemed to not care about winning for a good chunk of the year. He took the largest guarantee money he could. Maybe he is also friends with Russ and wants to hang out with him. I think it has 0 to do with OKC, the team, and especially to trying to win there. I think he would have re-signed in Indiana for a super max if they had held on to him.

He might get more endorsements in LA, but I am not sure of that. He would be over shadowed by Lebron there. Plus his brand is national anyways. I doubt it matters that much anymore unless you are a big star in a big city, which he is not.

It certainly doesn’t matter as much, Donovan will be crawling in endorsements here very soon if he continues his path. But the money is negligible. I think Russ had a lot to do with it. He didn’t want to leave Russ and make him look bad, which is fine, that’s part of that word loyalty. To your teammates, coaches, etc. To act like in 2 years he couldn’t have got a max deal is asinine. PG is 28, CP3 just signed a max extension at age 33 and you know that’s gonna look bad at the end of it. Teams will do things to win, and at age 30 a team would still give him a max contract, especially most markets, he will still be that good. Star players get max money, and it’s not a discussion really, even at times where a team knows it may look bad at the end.

 

[Ron Mexico]

It certainly doesn’t matter as much, Donovan will be crawling in endorsements here very soon if he continues his path. But the money is negligible. I think Russ had a lot to do with it. He didn’t want to leave Russ and make him look bad, which is fine, that’s part of that word loyalty. To your teammates, coaches, etc. To act like in 2 years he couldn’t have got a max deal is asinine. PG is 28, CP3 just signed a max extension at age 33 and you know that’s gonna look bad at the end of it. Teams will do things to win, and at age 30 a team would still give him a max contract, especially most markets, he will still be that good. Star players get max money, and it’s not a discussion really, even at times where a team knows it may look bad at the end.

Some team might give him that super max. But that is a risk he didnt want to take and I think it was a smart choice. I dont think its a guarantee that in 2 years a team will want to give up 40% on the back end of their salary to PG. Many teams are seeing that is a bad idea. Hence why some of these players are being traded away, such as PG and Jimmy Butler. Its a no brainer for certain players but these guys are on the fringe of that.

I would not want the Jazz to sign PG to a 10 year vet supermax. You give a supermax to a top 5 player, maybe top 10. I dont think PG is that. I also dont think he will be that in 2 years, I think he will continue to decline. A max like he got now is a decent deal but still risky for a team.

 

[oneye]

Some team might give him that super max. But that is a risk he didnt want to take and I think it was a smart choice. I dont think its a guarantee that in 2 years a team will want to give up 40% on the back end of their salary to PG. Many teams are seeing that is a bad idea. Hence why some of these players are being traded away, such as PG and Jimmy Butler. Its a no brainer for certain players but these guys are on the fringe of that.

I would not want the Jazz to sign PG to a 10 year vet supermax. You give a supermax to a top 5 player, maybe top 10. I dont think PG is that. I also dont think he will be that in 2 years, I think he will continue to decline. A max like he got now is a decent deal but still risky for a team.

Most teams will give max and super max to their stars. Is Devin Booker a top 10 player? Will he really be worth that contract and the space he’s taking up for Phoenix? Probably not, but as a team you have to do it. I really have no doubt PG will still be a good player in 2 years and could have got a max contract. Is Hayward worth the max really? Not really, but the Jazz would have given it to him. Stars gets max and super max money, your franchise players do. Period. They don’t have to be top 5 or top 10, that’s not reality.

 

[Ron Mexico]

Most teams will give max and super max to their stars. Is Devin Booker a top 10 player? Will he really be worth that contract and the space he’s taking up for Phoenix? Probably not, but as a team you have to do it. I really have no doubt PG will still be a good player in 2 years and could have got a max contract. Is Hayward worth the max really? Not really, but the Jazz would have given it to him. Stars gets max and super max money, your franchise players do. Period. They don’t have to be top 5 or top 10, that’s not reality.

I agree on the max, I disagree on the super max.

 

[oneye]

I agree on the max, I disagree on the super max.

I’m not really saying I disagree with your assessment, it’s just not reality. When you’re a franchise you have to hold on to stars, and a lot of times that means overpaying. Had Hayward been up for a supermax offer, Jazz would have offered it and he wasn’t worth it, at the same time you have to do it.

 

[SCS]

Nobody will ever surpass Karl Malone and John Stockton to me. Become an equal to them? Possibly. Surpass them? Can't be done in my mind.

Malone and Stockton were my heroes growing up. Heroes are hard to "surpass". But there's always room for new heroes. I think Donovan and Rudy have a chance to be right up there with them as franchise greats. Hopefully they bring home the title that eluded Stockton and Malone (I believe they will)

 

[ekimebirt]

5 titles. Get real. They couldn't even win one when MJ was off playing baseball. Also back then Eas t was way more supreme then the West. Like it is now but the other way around.

This is just wrong. The west was better than the east back then as well. I remember the exact same conversation about playoff seeding if the jazz were in the east. I remember calling the MidWest division the MidBest division. I remember thinking the Jazz got beat up in the playoffs while Chicago coasted through. I even remember conversations on 1 to 16 playoff seeding favoring the west.