Yes Means Yes law passed

[One Brow]

Do you ever just simply answer a yes/no question with a yes or a no?

Yes.

 

[PearlWatson]

Since the actual measure was about 19.1%, I think a 0.9% round-up in the estimate is insufficient to label the stat as "bogus".

How they came to those #s is the bogus part.

“The estimated 19% sexual assault rate among college women is based on a survey at two large four-year universities, which might not accurately reflect our nation’s colleges overall. In addition, the survey had a large non-response rate, with the clear possibility that those who had been victimized were more apt to have completed the questionnaire, resulting in an inflated prevalence figure.”

Fox and Moran also point out that the study used an overly broad definition of sexual assault. Respondents were counted as sexual assault victims if they had been subject to “attempted forced kissing” or engaged in intimate encounters while intoxicated.

Defenders of the one-in-five figure will reply that the finding has been replicated by other studies. But these studies suffer from some or all of the same flaws. Campus sexual assault is a serious problem and will not be solved by statistical hijinks.

https://time.com/3222543/5-feminist-myths-that-will-not-die/

the researchers – not the women themselves – decided whether they had been assaulted
The researchers included “forced kissing” and “attempted” forced kissing in their definition of sexual assault, and counted every admission of drunken sex as a rape by default,

There is a Drinking Culture and Hookup Culture on Campuses but no "rape culture":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFn63DBn_KA

Even RAINN, the most influential sexual assault protection group has rejected the "rape culture" label in a statement to the White House:

Rape is caused not by cultural factors but by the conscious decisions by a small percentage of the community to commit a violent crime.

 

[One Brow]

How they came to those #s is the bogus part.

Your quotes didn't offer any evidence of the bogus part. For example, "the clear possibility that those who had been victimized were more apt to have completed the questionnaire" is no greater than the clear possibility that those who had been victimized were" less "apt to have completed the questionnaire".

You misrepresented Summers misrepresentation of the study.

There is a Drinking Culture and Hookup Culture on Campuses but no "rape culture":

Your video is using a definition of rape culture that I have never seen a feminist use.

 

[Gameface]

I'm not sure. How do you get so drunk you can't even stand up by yourself (as happens in these cases), yet have the ability to force yourself on anyone? Anywhere you draw the line, there will be border cases.



The number of women who consent to sex, and then afterward decide they were raped, is very, very small.



Women don't typically call that rape, either.



Let's be clear:
1) The woman endangered her marriage by admitting she was in that room.
2) The woman subjected herself to some very negative responses by making the allegation.
3) We have only the guy's word of enthusiastic consent, a man raised in a culture where we are taught that good girls say no, and men are supposed to keep trying until they say yes.

What do you think the woman stood to gin by making her allegation, if she did not believe she had been raped?



If you believe the guy's story, he's not a rapist. An inability to remember consent is not a lack of consent.

I've had sex with my wife when she consented, yet was so drunk she could not remember it the next day. Not once has she said that she didn't want to have sex the previous night.

Did you read the part where she doesn't remember what happened and assumed it was rape? So, you're willing to call that rape?

You say the number of times a woman decides after sex that it was rape is very very small. You base that assertion on what? And how often is it acceptable to falsely incarcerate a man for rape?

 

[LogGrad98]

I'm not sure. How do you get so drunk you can't even stand up by yourself (as happens in these cases), yet have the ability to force yourself on anyone? Anywhere you draw the line, there will be border cases.



The number of women who consent to sex, and then afterward decide they were raped, is very, very small.



Women don't typically call that rape, either.



Let's be clear:
1) The woman endangered her marriage by admitting she was in that room.
2) The woman subjected herself to some very negative responses by making the allegation.
3) We have only the guy's word of enthusiastic consent, a man raised in a culture where we are taught that good girls say no, and men are supposed to keep trying until they say yes.

What do you think the woman stood to gin by making her allegation, if she did not believe she had been raped?



If you believe the guy's story, he's not a rapist. An inability to remember consent is not a lack of consent.

I've had sex with my wife when she consented, yet was so drunk she could not remember it the next day. Not once has she said that she didn't want to have sex the previous night.

Hell give my wife an ambien and she will have no clue that it even happened at 3:00 in the morning.

Um, I mean that is what I think might happen. You know. If I knew what ambien was.

Right? Ambien?

 

[LogGrad98]

Did you read the part where she doesn't remember what happened and assumed it was rape? So, you're willing to call that rape?

You say the number of times a woman decides after sex that it was rape is very very small. You base that assertion on what? And how often is it acceptable to falsely incarcerate a man for rape?

In the words of Chief Wiggum, I would rather let a hundred guilty men go free than chase after them.

 

[moevillini]

Do the names Gary Dotson and Cathleen Crowell Webb ring any bells? As I recall , some ditzy morning talk show host requested they hug on national TV.

 

[One Brow]

Did you read the part where she doesn't remember what happened and assumed it was rape? So, you're willing to call that rape?

Do you find any of these three things likely: this was the first time she was drunk, this was the first time she had drunk sex, or she had a long history or making rape accusations after having drunk sex? If none of the above are true, then yes, that she woke up this particular time, and thought she was raped, means something was different from the last few times she had drunk sex. If any of the above are true, there is a lot more room for doubt.

Also, you still haven't offered any reason to think she was lying. I take it you accept the she really believed she was raped?

I've never been that drunk, so I'll ask those on the board with experience. How often did you wake up, and see vomit on, say, the bed, and think to yourselves that someone forced your mouth open, held down your tongue, and made you vomit? How often did you see a fist-sized hole in the wall, and assume that someone carried you to the wall, balled your hand, and pounded the wall with it? How often did you see a urine-soaked rug, and assume that someone pulled down your pants and pushed on your bladder until you peed?

You say the number of times a woman decides after sex that it was rape is very very small. You base that assertion on what?

What I have read of the scientific research.

And how often is it acceptable to falsely incarcerate a man for rape?

Never. That's why there is a presumption of innocence and a jury trial, to reduce the number of false incarcerations. However, I don't see you taking this position (avoid prosecuting what might be close cases) regarding robberies, auto theft, or murder. Why does it come out for rape?

 

[LogGrad98]

Never. That's why there is a presumption of innocence and a jury trial, to reduce the number of false incarcerations. However, I don't see you taking this position (avoid prosecuting what might be close cases) regarding robberies, auto theft, or murder. Why does it come out for rape?

Ambiguity. If I find your fingerprints all over a car, and all kinds of DNA evidence that you took a car that did not belong to you without the owner's permission, maybe even a video is available of you breaking into the car, it is generally accepted that it is cut and dried evidence you stole the car. If two people have drunken sex, and they find all kinds of evidence that they had sex (*****, hair, whatever, even a wild internet video) that does NOT make it fairly cut and dried a rape happened. The situation is far more ambiguous, generally.

 

[One Brow]

Ambiguity. If I find your fingerprints all over a car, and all kinds of DNA evidence that you took a car that did not belong to you without the owner's permission,

How do you prove that the owner did not give permission, outside of the owner's word? Why isn't owner-said-alleged-thief-said just as ambiguous?

 

[LogGrad98]

How do you prove that the owner did not give permission, outside of the owner's word? Why isn't owner-said-alleged-thief-said just as ambiguous?

Seriously?

I call cops and report my car stolen from outside a Maverik I stopped at on my way to work, where I left it running because I am an idiot. They canvass the black neighborhoods, harass a few people for ****s and giggles, then find my car parked in a crappy part of town at a Denny's (obviously) and arrest a white guy in a wife-beater. He claims to be my best friend and says I gave him the keys and asked him to bring it to the Denny's. I say ******** he is not and I did not. He has no way of proving we had ever met, no one had ever seen me with him before, no one he knows or I know can say they had ever seen us together. He does not know my address. I don't know his. Police investigate and he goes to jail.

I take a drunk girl home from the bar. We have drunken crazy sex. She claims I raped her. I say ******** she consented. Several people saw us talking at the bar, saw us dancing and doing drinking games, saw us leave together, see us making out like crazy at the bar, all attest we were drunk out of our minds. My neighbor sees her leave the next morning in a cab. The cab driver attests he picked her up after I called and told him she needed a ride home from my place. She admits being fuzzy on her memory of the night before. She says she remembers us going to my place, making out a lot and taking off our clothes and not much after that, but that she didn't think she would give consent after taking off all our clothes and touching each other all over. I say it was just a natural thing, we made out, undressed each other, and did it on the couch, her on top. Police investigate and...then what?

So which is inherently more ambiguous?

 

[One Brow]

So which is inherently more ambiguous?

Do I get to respond with equally loaded scenarios?

For example, do if I come back with a pair where the guy in your wife-beater is your best friend, everyone has seen you together, and he's even been seen backing your car out of the driveway in the first scenario; while in the second, the woman was having drinking games with her friends, and on the way out the door the guy just offered to walk her home out of the blue and he was seen leaving her apartment, then which is more ambiguous?

How woulde you feel if the police told you since you knew the the guy, he couldn't have stolen your car?