What's new

Yup, unions are awesome!

So did you read that link I posted? Let me post it again in case you didn't see it:
https://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/18/1162786/-Inside-the-Hostess-Bankery#

Do you disagree with any of that?

Also, why would the company just close down because the bakers decided to strike? Why wouldn't they just call up the local temp agency and say they need a bunch of unskilled workers and they'll pay $8.00 to $11.00 per hour, depending on experience?

Have you seen the latest reports saying the company is asking the bankruptcy court for permission to pay the top execs $1.8 million in bonuses, in addition to their full salaries?

Honestly, I think the management was corrupt. Nobody would have ever been paid back any concessions. Just like nobody got paid back for the pensions that were borrowed.

Sorry you lost your job man, but I think you're placing blame on the wrong people.

Yeah, I get RJF's point of view but I'm with you. Let's see, a company is essentially run into the ground to the point of bankruptcy and executives somehow think they deserve a bonus? This boggles mind in the same way executives during and after the financial crisis bailout felt entitled to massive bonuses despite doing a ****ty job.
 
Yeah, I get RJF's point of view but I'm with you. Let's see, a company is essentially run into the ground to the point of bankruptcy and executives somehow think they deserve a bonus? This boggles mind in the same way executives during and after the financial crisis bailout felt entitled to massive bonuses despite doing a ****ty job.

Executive Bonuses = 1.8 million
Amount of money raided from the pension in which there are currently no plans to pay back = 1.1 million
 
Last edited:
This is what American "free enterprise" has become, no holds barred.

"capitalism' at it's finest.

The reason the British colonies took umbrage at the inside track British corporates in the eighteenth century had over their colonial governments bought and paid for in England is the same reason American States today should take umbrage at the inside track "international" corporates have over our "Washington DC" government bought and paid for by capitalists sporting offshore bank accounts and scheming to buy American companies for the express purpose of taking them to China or Mexico to build virtual slave labor camps supplying the "world" markets in our States.

So are you folks going to buy twinkies when they bear "hecho en Mexico" labels, or "Made in China". . . . .?

Hell yeah. . . . . . and at Walmart.
 
If they taste good and I want them I'll buy them, no matter where they're made.

This world will be a much better place when workers in China want twinkies, big screen tvs and fancy cars...and can buy them. I don't want to starve the world in the name of American prosperity. If they make good twinkies in China and sell them at a price I think is fair then more power to them.
 
If they taste good and I want them I'll buy them, no matter where they're made.

Despite the jokes, Twinkies do actualy go stale and/or develop mold (as do all the other cakes, pies, etc.). Baking non-locally seems like a recipe for regularly wasting a lot of product.
 
Despite the jokes, Twinkies do actualy go stale and/or develop mold (as do all the other cakes, pies, etc.). Baking non-locally seems like a recipe for regularly wasting a lot of product.

food is routinely shipped internationally. . . . everything from staples like grain to bananas.

If the "value added" part of the price makes it worthwhile shipping ingredients to China and products back to the USA, and the labor cost savings will pay the freight, that's what we will do.

just sayin' . . . . . of course it also works if we can import cheap labor and have them live in tightly packed housing, working and sleeping as if they were inside a nuclear submarine for a year, we'll do that too.

Unions today have been turned into lapdogs for corporate management generally, and however stupid some unions may be in cases where they pretend to stand on "principle", they can hardly claim to be morally superior than "management" when the bosses are corrupt and just as bent on feathering their own nests as the "management" side. But the original concept of unions as worker watchdogs and a meaningful force for bettering working conditions was a good one, and is badly needed today as much as ever, all across the world.

And yes, tariffs are a good idea too, because they will encourage local production of essentials, ensuring more competition and preventing exploitation by the larger cartelists.
 
Last edited:
food is routinely shipped internationally. . . . everything from staples like grain to bananas.

If the "value added" part of the price makes it worthwhile shipping ingredients to China and products back to the USA, and the labor cost savings will pay the freight, that's what we will do.

just sayin' . . . . . of course it also works if we can import cheap labor and have them live in tightly packed housing, working and sleeping as if they were inside a nuclear submarine for a year, we'll do that too.

Unions today have been turned into lapdogs for corporate management generally, and however stupid some unions may be in cases where they pretend to stand on "principle", they can hardly claim to be morally superior than "management" when the bosses are corrupt and just as bent on feathering their own nests as the "management" side. But the original concept of unions as worker watchdogs and a meaningful force for bettering working conditions was a good one, and is badly needed today as much as ever, all across the world.

And yes, tariffs are a good idea too, because they will encourage local production of essentials, ensuring more competition and preventing exploitation by the larger cartelists.

The working conditions in China and the expectations and desires of the common Chinese workers are changing, as the expectations and desires of early industrial age workers in the U.S. have changed. China is emerging from a long dark age. The emergence is at the same time threatening and encouraging. The most populace nation on planet Earth, filled with more human life than three nations such as the U.S.. I wish them well. It's a hard journey, but well worth the trip.
 
A couple of comments regarding unions:
1. Unions are more powerful in some states than others. Utah is a right to work state, so employees have an option to join their respective union and pay dues, or not. Also unions negotiate exclusive contracts in some cases. In Las Vegas it is common for construction companies to create a sister company that is union specifically to pursue such contracts.
2. Union executives also are paid very well. They don't clear what CEOs do, but it's a good chunk of change.

I don't mind unions protecting the worker, and they definitely shouldn't be done away with. I don't agree when they engage in anticompetitive activities like PLAs (project labor agreements).

As far as Hostess goes, Politico is not likely to blame the union and omit info that does. Just as a conservative outlet like fox will likely focus on anti-union aspects of a story. I read all three links posted, the fox one is really a CNN Money story, so they are all left leaning outlets giving the story. I didn't see much more than propaganda. CNN shows the cuts to be 8%, which is confirmed by our poster here and realistic imo. Also the drastic cuts sited on KOS do not show a reference and is a blog post from an individual who only discloses a screen name. I guarantee that would be all over major media if those numbers were verifiable. It would be interesting to see the actual contract.
 
The working conditions in China and the expectations and desires of the common Chinese workers are changing, as the expectations and desires of early industrial age workers in the U.S. have changed. China is emerging from a long dark age. The emergence is at the same time threatening and encouraging. The most populace nation on planet Earth, filled with more human life than three nations such as the U.S.. I wish them well. It's a hard journey, but well worth the trip.

I agree, from my relative ignorance, that the best hope we have is the ability of the ordinary Chinese people to improve their lives in a peaceful way within their present circumstances. . . . and that there seems to be good reason to hope for this . . . . and I wish them well, too.

According to my sister-in-law, whose father served in the Chinese Navy and whose mother has quietly and almost inconspicuously lived as a Christian through her whole life, life is getting better and particularly for the fairly strong "capitalist" business manager class, who are arguably responsible for the resurgence of American auto company fortunes. . . . . In mainland China, every advancing family "must have" their own Buick.

But there are still a whole lot of Chinese workers who are dying from the cadmium in the paint they use on toys for export. . . . .and in many other specific hazardous working situations.

And the air we breathe is being impacted from our downwind position on the globe.
 
food is routinely shipped internationally. . . . everything from staples like grain to bananas.

Yes, not all food is baked goods. Grains don't ripen much off the stalk. Fruit is pickedand shipped before it is ripe. What does any of this have to do with baked goods?

Tariffs carry their own load of negative effects, but I'll let the economists talk aboiut those, if they are so inclined.
 
Yes, not all food is baked goods. Grains don't ripen much off the stalk. Fruit is pickedand shipped before it is ripe. What does any of this have to do with baked goods?

Tariffs carry their own load of negative effects, but I'll let the economists talk aboiut those, if they are so inclined.

The Hostess products are very long "shelf life", with pretty high value/weight at the checkstand, and being "baked goods" is irrelevant to the economics of producing them anywhere on the planet. What is relevant is the cost of labor, and as is the case in many other specific products, the removal of tariffs facilitates relocating production offshore/outside this country. . . . . and is the principal economic fact that has meant American soil union jobs have been lost.

Yet our unions have supported the legislation on tariff reductions, and cost American union members their jobs.

The disproportionate costs of American Labor vs. Maquiladoras shops in Juarez were obvious from the eighties, and only one area of US legislation enabling "globalization" in trade. Other disadvantages we have engineered to our own destruction of our American middle class workers include disproportionate costs such as environmental regulations we impose on ourselves, and "safety net" social costs such as social security, medicare, Obamacare, and a thousand other things we have done to shoot ourselves in the foot, so to speak, as a nation. . . . . even importing virtual "slave labor" workers from poor countries for our farms, food processors, meatpackers, and virtually every other labor-intensive production facility you could name.

We import engineers, medical caregivers, even business "managers" such as hotel/motel nightclerks, auto mechanics, home builders and all kinds of construction workers. . . . all at the expense of what used to be "Union" jobs in large numbers. . . . and our unions have been on the bandwagon every step of the way.

Unions today don't give a damn about maintaining adequate living wages or the welfare of their workers. The managers of Unions are just as happy to collect dues from slave laborers as anyone else. All they care about is their piece of the pie.

Which, logically, brings us back to the Hostess bakers' union that tried to, or pretended to, negotiate a stronger pay package. . . . and the corporate managers who all Romney-esque just knew they had a brand and product that could be produced anywhere but didn't care to do it here anymore, who believed they could sell the brand at a nice price even with their declining business in the USA, and probably to some "robber baron" cartelists located across the Rio Grande, who would use our new Brownsville-Chicago superhighway and Mexican trucking to deliver to the US market. . . . and maybe set up a bakery in Shanghai too. So it's really no big deal to us if a few of our capitalists sell off a piece of our economy, pocketing huge bonus/incentives amounting to many times the hoped-for wage/benefits of twenty thousand Americans supposedly because of "union" stupidity or intransigence.

It's really more of a "what took them so long to do this" story.

Even for "baked goods".
 
I've found twinkies in the cupboard that had been there a year, and snarfed them up without noticing any change in smell, flavor, or digestibility. . . . and I used to frequent a Hostess bakery about a block away where they sold stuff pretty cheap with the magic marker streak. . . . at half price or better. . . . . presumably because of the claimed 25 day shelf life. . . . and I've serviced refreshment stands which offer them for sale. . . . and while they do sell, sometimes they are there a while, and nobody ever complained about them being outta date.

Clearly, the urban legends seem believable because of a whole lot of people with observations like this. . . . lol.

how about marshmallows. . . and mayonaise. . . . related egg products with long shelf lives. . . . and it's the egg ingredient that has the shortest shelf life in the twinkie. The stamped expiration date probably reflects not the actual shelf life but the market research and sales "shelf life". . . . no reason to extend the date on impulse purchase/highly consumable comfort foods. . . . unless you really just can't sell them that fast. . . . which i don't think is the dominant issue.

clearly, I favor highly distributed production models anyway, where the stuff we buy is more locally-produced than shipped back and forth across the oceans. Seems like if we cared about energy waste we could put a little more value on goods being produced near their retail outlets. . . .
 
Obviously they decided it wasn't worth it. It isn't like they're making out at your expense, they're all losing their jobs, too. I'm sorry this is happening to you, but they didn't owe you anything.



I didn't once say they owed me a ****ing thing. Like I said, there's plenty of blame for both sides but you can't replace Union workers, as Salty suggested, without closing down the company for a minimum of 30 days. So, the strike was the ultimate doom. AND, yes, managment was too eager for it to happen.
 
I didn't once say they owed me a ****ing thing. Like I said, there's plenty of blame for both sides but you can't replace Union workers, as Salty suggested, without closing down the company for a minimum of 30 days. So, the strike was the ultimate doom. AND, yes, managment was too eager for it to happen.

That's BS. Union workers can absolutely be replaced if they go on strike. I don't know who is telling you the incorrect info, but you need to check a different source.

Here is some reading to get you started:
https://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2005/08/26_newsroom_day7/

Some more info on permanently replacing striking workers:
https://leraweb.org/publications/pe...-striker-replacement-doctrine-seen-union-atto

Here is a company that provides replacement workers to companies during strikes and lockouts:
https://www.pmgroup1.com/planning-services/labor-dispute-planning

Striking workers absolutely can be replaced, either permanently or temporarily. It's happened plenty of times in the past, even with highly skilled workers. Whoever is telling you that it can't be done is likely a huge part of the problem at hostess. Especially if these guys are as unskilled as you claim.
 
so what will YOU be doing on July 15?


https://finance.yahoo.com/news/hostess-twinkies-return-shelves-july-15-163913503.html

NEW YORK (AP) — Hostess is betting on a sweet comeback for Twinkies when they return to shelves next month.

The company that went bankrupt after an acrimonious fight with its unionized workers last year is back up and running under new owners and a leaner structure. It says it plans to have Twinkies and other snack cakes back on shelves starting July 15.

Based on the outpouring of nostalgia sparked by its demise, Hostess is expecting a blockbuster return next month for Twinkies and other sugary treats, such as CupCakes and Donettes. The company says the cakes will taste the same but that the boxes will now bear the tag line "The Sweetest Comeback In The History Of Ever."

"A lot of impostor products have come to the market while Hostess has been off the shelves," says Daren Metropoulos, a principal of the investment firm Metropoulos & Co., which teamed up with Apollo Global Management to buy a variety of Hostess snacks.


posted in "Golden Twinkie" in honor of this upcoming special event
 
Top