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Zach Lowe on Jazz' starting lineup

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Lowe on Jazz' starting lineup:
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22210351/zach-lowe-10-things-like-including-all-star-snubs-nba
3. Utah's starting five
It might be time to pull the plug on the Ricky Rubio-Derrick Favors-Rudy Gobert trio. The Jazz know it too, which is why they pull the in-game plug three or four minutes into each half.

Utah has scored just 90.5 points per 100 possessions with those three on the floor -- dead last among 500-plus trios that have logged at least 275 minutes together, per NBA.com. That is a full 10 points below Sacramento's league-worst overall offense -- equivalent to the gap between the Kings and the No. 4 Raptors. (Congrats to the Kings, by the way, for jumping out of the basement in points allowed per possession so that they are not dead last on both sides of the ball. And congrats to the Cavs for finally sinking to the bottom on defense!)

Opponents have outscored Utah by almost 16 points per 100 possessions in the 278 minutes those three have played together. Only six of those 500-plus trios have worse scoring margins. (Four of those six come from Sacramento.)

Favors thrived as a rim-running center when Gobert missed extended time, but he's miscast playing alongside the French Rejection -- at least given the present state of Utah's perimeter talent. When Favors slides to center, about 57 percent of his shots come in the restricted area, per NBA.com. That drops below 40 percent when Favors plays alongside Gobert.

Favors spots up in the corner, but no one cares, and they shouldn't; Favors is 5-of-24 on 3s, though he has told me is optimistic he will hit more next season after a year experimenting. Chilling there also takes him far from the rim; the twin towers look has barely nudged Utah's anemic offensive rebounding rate.

Favors's pick-and-pop long 2s don't scare defenses. His post-up game -- a method of manufacturing spacing when there is none -- has stalled out; Favors is just 9-of-30 on post-up shots this season, per Synergy Sports.

The rise of Donovan Mitchell has relegated Rubio to more off-ball duty, and there may no perimeter guy worse suited to off-ball duty than Rubio. Teams don't even pretend to guard him anymore.

It's easier to suggest a lineup change from the outside than it is to make one. Rubio may be a Jazz man next season (not a certainty, by the way), and Utah is likely wary of crushing his confidence by benching him -- and moving Mitchell to point guard. Potential replacements for Rubio are uninspiring, especially with Rodney Hood dealing with another case of Rodney Hood-itis. Thabo Sefolosha, a fill-in starter at multiple positions, is out for the season.

Starting Jonas Jerebko or Joe Johnson in Favors' place might be the easiest fix, but those guys aren't saving Utah's season. The trade deadline might provide a solution.

Nothing we haven't chewed to bits and pieces 1000 times over but oh well...
 
Also... Neto is shooting 54% on catch and shoot threes. I would trade Ricky for basically anything right now. Mentioned in the article is that we can't move him to the bench... I hope that changes after the trade deadline.
 
Literally all the advanced on/off lineup data point to Ricky being the biggest issue by far... Props to you for calling it out when we were all hopeful when he was acquired.

In the Indiana game Rubio caught the ball at the top of the 3 point line, no one came out to guard him, he dribbled in two steps and STILL no one came out to guard him.

It can't be understated how much pressure this puts on the other 4 guys. It really is amazing how many open looks The Jazz get considering this. Imagine if we had a PG who the defense doesn't ignore unless he's within 19 feet of the basket?
 
Also... Neto is shooting 54% on catch and shoot threes. I would trade Ricky for basically anything right now. Mentioned in the article is that we can't move him to the bench... I hope that changes after the trade deadline.
I would trade him for an expiring right now if I could.
 
Literally all the advanced on/off lineup data point to Ricky being the biggest issue by far... Props to you for calling it out when we were all hopeful when he was acquired.

I believed you stitches before the season started.. However, it has been more stark than I had even anticipated.
 
I would trade him for an expiring right now if I could.

I would trade him for a less savory non expiring. Think Dudley from Phoenix or Thomas from NY with expiring salary.

Those guys could be rotation players and it opens a little salary flexibility.
 
I believed you stitches before the season started.. However, it has been more stark than I had even anticipated.
You can find threads around here from 2015-2016 probably suggesting we should trade for Rubio(when we were looking for a PG that became George Hill) where I predicted the exact same thing and I was harping on how bad of a fit he will be with our front court. This is what's so mind-boggling for me with this one... How can a GM... a good GM with experience, a GM that constructed the 2016-2017 roster(which I thought was masterfully constructed)... how can he think this will work? This was NOT hard to see. I refuse to accept that this one was hard to see. This was probably the most obvious roster-construction blunder I've ever seen in my 20 something year NBA fandom. This was horrific from the very idea. It was doomed from the start... and we paid a good first round pick to see the train-wreck happen before our eyes for the duration of a full season(and possibly more).
 
Welcome to June 2017.
Yep. It became a problem the minute Hayward walked out the door and a huge problem when Favors became healthy and Joe Johnson was not playing major minutes. And by that, I mean the JJ of last year, not his corpse which we currently see on the court.
 
You can find threads around here from 2015-2016 probably suggesting we should trade for Rubio(when we were looking for a PG that became George Hill) where I predicted the exact same thing and I was harping on how bad of a fit he will be with our front court. This is what's so mind-boggling for me with this one... How can a GM... a good GM with experience, a GM that constructed the 2016-2017 roster(which I thought was masterfully constructed)... how can he think this will work? This was NOT hard to see. I refuse to accept that this one was hard to see. This was probably the most obvious roster-construction blunder I've ever seen in my 20 something year NBA fandom. This was horrific from the very idea. It was doomed from the start... and we paid a good first round pick to see the train-wreck happen before our eyes for the duration of a full season(and possibly more).

I had not watched much Ricky pre-trade and assumed that Hayward told DL that "do these things and I'm probably coming back". I felt the trade was a success if it meant Hayward was back and assumed DL had direction/assurance from Hayward on the deal. Otherwise it was a flat out miss that DL should have seen coming.

The real lesson on Ricky is don't let a player drive what you do... especially when his pen isn't on the paper yet. Having that pick and the cap space would be substantial in helping us move on after Hayward.
 
I'd still rather keep Ricky than give him up for nothing (unless we are getting another starting level PG back, like Kemba)
 
You can find threads around here from 2015-2016 probably suggesting we should trade for Rubio(when we were looking for a PG that became George Hill) where I predicted the exact same thing and I was harping on how bad of a fit he will be with our front court. This is what's so mind-boggling for me with this one... How can a GM... a good GM with experience, a GM that constructed the 2016-2017 roster(which I thought was masterfully constructed)... how can he think this will work? This was NOT hard to see. I refuse to accept that this one was hard to see. This was probably the most obvious roster-construction blunder I've ever seen in my 20 something year NBA fandom. This was horrific from the very idea. It was doomed from the start... and we paid a good first round pick to see the train-wreck happen before our eyes for the duration of a full season(and possibly more).

I really think DL panicked and was just trying to appease Hayward. It wouldn't have worked with Hayward either, but that's the only explanation I'm seeing right now. A desperation move that DL tried to spin after the fact.
 
I'd still rather keep Ricky than give him up for nothing (unless we are getting another starting level PG back, like Kemba)

I'd do Rubio for expirings and not think twice about it. Moving him without taking salary back would mean we'd have actual cap space next year. We can do better with $15M in cap space than what Ricky will give us.
 
I'd do Rubio for expirings and not think twice about it. Moving him without taking salary back would mean we'd have actual cap space next year. We can do better with $15M in cap space than what Ricky will give us.
He seems to be a very positive locker-room and community presence. I think that is worth not completely giving up on him and giving him a chance w/ a roster that is better suited to him (and to the whole team).
 
Unless there is a better option, I am not giving up on Rubio this year if we get a stretch, playmaking 4 and don't have to play Favors after the trade deadline.
 
He seems to be a very positive locker-room and community presence. I think that is worth not completely giving up on him and giving him a chance w/ a roster that is better suited to him (and to the whole team).

I like him as a person and agree whole-heartidly on the first part. The issue is he has to start because if he is benched his trade value tanks... he is paid a lot so sinking his trade value is an issue. He works so poorly with Rudy (and others) that it isn't worth it for the warm fuzzies.

Neto is a good guy who has worked hard and always competes. He is on a minimum deal... all things being equal contractually I think he'd get more run and likely would have replaced Ricky in the starting lineup. he hasn't been healthy so its not as big of an issue.

If we make the decision to bring Ricky off the bench is he still the positive locker room presence?
 
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