CEO raises minimum wage to $70000, takes $70000 wage himself until profits are met.

[babe]

I haven't read all of this thread. The way it started out seemed like a setup for some political talking points. . . . uuhhhmmm. . . . I don't really respect.

Some of the last posts seem to be more to my liking.

I would like to ask Dal(and Siro) for the actual science that supports the dialectic class warfare. What I've seen is a lot people who accept the idea of working for something they value movin on up. My dad got cut out of his inheritance for disrespecting his father, and made his own little fortune, and took pride in doing it all on his own, without anyone helping him. He made sure I didn't get anything from him.

I didn't think Franklin was old enough to have paper routes as a kid. Wasn't it in the seventies the NPAC started the policy of car deliveries and cut out the paperboys on bikes? That mean you had to be old enough to have a drivers' license. I got my first newspaper route when I was 10. I moved on up to greasy spoon diner jobs when I was 14.

Well, anyway, here's a plug for opportunity. The best thing we could do to "Save America" is let our kids have those jobs the whole world is trying to come here to do. The world just doesn't look the same when you know what you can do with your own hands.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I haven't read all of this thread. The way it started out seemed like a setup for some political talking points. . . . uuhhhmmm. . . . I don't really respect.

Some of the last posts seem to be more to my liking.

I would like to ask Dal(and Siro) for the actual science that supports the dialectic class warfare. What I've seen is a lot people who accept the idea of working for something they value movin on up. My dad got cut out of his inheritance for disrespecting his father, and made his own little fortune, and took pride in doing it all on his own, without anyone helping him. He made sure I didn't get anything from him.

I didn't think Franklin was old enough to have paper routes as a kid. Wasn't it in the seventies the NPAC started the policy of car deliveries and cut out the paperboys on bikes? That mean you had to be old enough to have a drivers' license. I got my first newspaper route when I was 10. I moved on up to greasy spoon diner jobs when I was 14.

Well, anyway, here's a plug for opportunity. The best thing we could do to "Save America" is let our kids have those jobs the whole world is trying to come here to do. The world just doesn't look the same when you know what you can do with your own hands.

I got your VM, been way busy.. will call back.

 

[b_line]

Please tell me how out of touch with reality I am. My parents were dirt poor. In fact I grew up in a house literally made of dirt in 1854. That was after years of being evicted by spoiled children inheriting the rentals we occupied and took damn good care of. I lived in a travel trailer (that we were pretty much given out of charity) for several months in between. We bottled a year's worth of fruits every fall to get by. We ate rice mixed with powdered milk every morning that was passed down from my great grandmother who was given a bit too much by welfare. You ever tasted that ****? How about goose meat for 60 meals a year? Tastes like sludge, almost worse than the smell of gutting the damn things at 6 years old, or chopping firewood at that age the night before and lighting the morning fire. My father was permanently disabled at a younger age than I am now and society didn't take care of us comfortably. Thank God for that. I've already worked longer than most of you will by retirement age. I've had a full time job since 3rd grade if you include school time. I've permanently had several jobs since 5th grade until about 25, more work in my teen years than half this population will do in a lifetime. I mowed about 10 acres a week in addition to picking and sorting fruit in orchards in the summers, and had a paper route that would make most of you cry.

I wouldn't trade any of that for a plush childhood that taught me to be a whiny little bitch who can't handle the reality of life. I would hate myself if I were the vast majority of the failures that came out of my middle class highschool.

Americans are soft *** puss holes who can't handle the big d coming there way. We live in the wealthiest country in the wealthiest time in the history of the world. If you can't cope then try harder.


So say it one more time how out of touch with reality I am.

I think that is great that you ivercame adversity to be a successful person and an upstanding citizen. I probably should have said that I see a different reality from the one you see, not that you are out of touch. I understand that you are a hard worker, and have a thoroughly american success story. I truly respect that.

The differences I see are that I can not imagine a scenario where a college student can take a full time course load, perform well, and make $30k annually. I also do not know a single person from my cohort of college graduates who started at more than $50k annually after completing a four year degree. I have a pretty good cross section of friends in varied fields, including engineering, healthcare, education, business, and so forth. My view of reality is that for recent college graduates, it is a very competitive workforce, and for one to stand out, it takes experience, which is difficult to get when you don't have experience to begin with.

The average college graduate in Utah makes about $42,000, or at least that's what is reported. Sure, hard working individuals can move up, but I personally have not seen a lot of people in their first 5 years of a career make significantly more than that. Even a few mechanical and civil engineer friends that I have had to get a masters degree before making over $50k.

I agree with your sentiment that hard workers can stand out, but I disagree with how easy you seem to think it is to make a lot of money. That may be due to my personal and family experiences, and I am sure it is to a certain extent. I also did not mean to offend you with my comment about you being out of touch with reality, and should have worded it differently.

 

[b_line]

I haven't read all of this thread. The way it started out seemed like a setup for some political talking points. . . . uuhhhmmm. . . . I don't really respect.

Some of the last posts seem to be more to my liking.

I would like to ask Dal(and Siro) for the actual science that supports the dialectic class warfare. What I've seen is a lot people who accept the idea of working for something they value movin on up. My dad got cut out of his inheritance for disrespecting his father, and made his own little fortune, and took pride in doing it all on his own, without anyone helping him. He made sure I didn't get anything from him.

I didn't think Franklin was old enough to have paper routes as a kid. Wasn't it in the seventies the NPAC started the policy of car deliveries and cut out the paperboys on bikes? That mean you had to be old enough to have a drivers' license. I got my first newspaper route when I was 10. I moved on up to greasy spoon diner jobs when I was 14.

Well, anyway, here's a plug for opportunity. The best thing we could do to "Save America" is let our kids have those jobs the whole world is trying to come here to do. The world just doesn't look the same when you know what you can do with your own hands.

I had paper routes on my bike from like 1994-96, so it was still around then

 

[Dr. Jones]

I had paper routes on my bike from like 1994-96, so it was still around then

#gayprostitute

 

[b_line]

#gayprostitute

They called it trick back then.

 

[Dr. Jones]

They called it trick back then.

I don't think so. I think they stopped calling it 'trick' back in 1991.

 

[b_line]

I don't think so. I think they stopped calling it 'trick' back in 1991.

You would know from all that experience.

 

[Dr. Jones]

You would know from all that experience.

Ha.. you know it.

 

[babe]

I had paper routes on my bike from like 1994-96, so it was still around then

hhmmm. . . . guess I haven't been in that area. In my ghetto there was a retarded guy who did detail yard chores for years. It was a proud success picture when he got a bike tricked out to carry his gear. . . . it could pull a small wagon with a load. I'd say if that guy could do it, anyone really could if they cared to.

Parents might have just insisted on driving the kids, though, in that part of town. . . .

 

[b_line]

hhmmm. . . . guess I haven't been in that area. In my ghetto there was a retarded guy who did detail yard chores for years. It was a proud success picture when he got a bike tricked out to carry his gear. . . . it could pull a small wagon with a load. I'd say if that guy could do it, anyone really could if they cared to.

Parents might have just insisted on driving the kids, though, in that part of town. . . .

I grew up in kearns. There was this guy with some sort of cognitive disability that fixed bikes and sold them. He was always riding around with an extra bike to sell to kids. We liked him because he could hit a hook shot from anywhere, and he would show us pictures of him "practicing" with the Jazz. I bet fishonjazz probably remembers this guy too, being from kearns.

 

[babe]

I grew up in kearns. There was this guy with some sort of cognitive disability that fixed bikes and sold them. He was always riding around with an extra bike to sell to kids. We liked him because he could hit a hook shot from anywhere, and he would show us pictures of him "practicing" with the Jazz. I bet fishonjazz probably remembers this guy too, being from kearns.

I should probably go PC and change the word "retarded" to "cognitive disability" or something. I don't care, I've been called everything. Up to grade five I was the class dunce, the snickeroo, or worse. . . .I like the flavor of words in the language that reflects the whole gamut of sensibilities/insensitivities. I like the toughness we can cultivate if we care to, or maybe I should say, if we can manage to, that enables a person to have more dignity than the mob, or the society does, no matter what they do to him.

"idiot savant" syndrome has a lot of facets. We all have some of that because of the way we focus our minds on certain things. On those things we are savants. On the things we aren't aware of, we're idiots. We are all some kind of chimera, intellectually, of imbecility and genius.

 

[babe]

I grew up in kearns. There was this guy with some sort of cognitive disability that fixed bikes and sold them. He was always riding around with an extra bike to sell to kids. We liked him because he could hit a hook shot from anywhere, and he would show us pictures of him "practicing" with the Jazz. I bet fishonjazz probably remembers this guy too, being from kearns.

I used to do a showoff gig on the playground, standing any three kids who'd play me a little street ball on the halfcourt. I won impressively, even against players on the school team. Coach wanted me to try out. I didn't, for reasons that were essentially a personal realization that I could not play on a team. I couldn't keep track of very many things happening. I was good at hook shots, but even better at hard drives away from the basket/hook shot combos. With one player between me and the basket, and two trying to cover the possible angles going out, I always had my "lane", and I always hit the shot.

On a team, I would never see an open man, or know when a pass was coming my way. . . .

I did pretty good on the long shots, too.

 

[babe]

I got your VM, been way busy.. will call back.

Now, I'm away from there. "There" is where the number is, so if you leave a message there. . .. well, wait a couple of days and I'll get it.

will likely be going through St. George sometime soon.

 

[franklin]

I think that is great that you ivercame adversity to be a successful person and an upstanding citizen.

What adversity? I didn't overcome anything. It's all personal perspective and I've never seen myself as some victim of bad circumstance I had to fight out of.

I probably should have said that I see a different reality from the one you see, not that you are out of touch. I understand that you are a hard worker, and have a thoroughly american success story. I truly respect that.

The differences I see are that I can not imagine a scenario where a college student can take a full time course load, perform well, and make $30k annually. I also do not know a single person from my cohort of college graduates who started at more than $50k annually after completing a four year degree. I have a pretty good cross section of friends in varied fields, including engineering, healthcare, education, business, and so forth. My view of reality is that for recent college graduates, it is a very competitive workforce, and for one to stand out, it takes experience, which is difficult to get when you don't have experience to begin with.

The average college graduate in Utah makes about $42,000, or at least that's what is reported. Sure, hard working individuals can move up, but I personally have not seen a lot of people in their first 5 years of a career make significantly more than that. Even a few mechanical and civil engineer friends that I have had to get a masters degree before making over $50k.

I agree with your sentiment that hard workers can stand out, but I disagree with how easy you seem to think it is to make a lot of money. That may be due to my personal and family experiences, and I am sure it is to a certain extent. I also did not mean to offend you with my comment about you being out of touch with reality, and should have worded it differently.

Yeah, you don't make as much starting out. It goes without saying that that's the way it should be. I get where you are coming from. Most people don't know how to look for a good job but I guarantee anyone here can make a minimum of $60k annually after 3-4 years given they have a high school diploma. If anyone wants a good job they should look into the municipalities or muni-like industries and big production facilities. Fed-ex & UPS will start you about 60k, lineman for powerplants will make over $80k after apprenticeship (plus a **** ton of overtime available), you can sit on your *** in a chair watching computer screens at the power plants for $36/hr, the refinery workers are clearing 6 figures easily, water plant jobs aren't the best but they pay the bills and you can advance to over $60k plus a full pension with a 4 year degree, the local mining jobs pay plenty and if you want $150k/yr you can go to more remote regions to work for only 6 months per year, Procter and Gamble only promotes from within and you have to start at the bottom but you'll be hard pressed to find an employee who doesn't love the company, similar with Nucor, whose employees were making about $85k before the 2008 crash and over $60k after, the natural gas compressor stations and upstream and downstream counterparts pay very well, garbage dumps can be good jobs for those with a little motivation, locomotive engineers make a lot of money, human resources management can make $100k in Salt Lake City, RN's make plenty and can work all the overtime they want, auto mechanics at mid-teir dealerships like Cadillac were making over $100k a decade ago, truck drivers are in demand, IT is in high demand.

There are jobs at the municipality or municipality like companies for pretty much any non-lib arts degree and they all pay plenty.

As far as not making $30k while going to college goes. I was making $25k a decade ago but I did take 18 months extra to finish. My co-workers with kids just entering college are all making around $18/hr or working seasonal jobs that pay plenty. Sure, some may have to live at home or with relatives for a couple years but that's not exactly a bad thing.

 

[Deleted member 848]

I won't speak for him. But let's ask, as I might be wrong too.

Dalabro, is the US a terrible place to live? Absolutely subpar in all sense of the word?

Gosh no-- depends on who you are, but as a Muslim immigrant, America is among the best. Doesn't mean there isn't tremendous room for improvement though. However, this whole idea of 'improvement' is so distasteful to most Americans it's actually ridiculous-- especially when you're using other nations as a case study of how this improvement could manifest.

 

[Deleted member 848]

That's basically the problem with every one of these dramatic, fear mongering 'look over there, that country is so much better because <insert random statistic here>. Most of them fall flat on their face in a matter of a few moments of reflection.

You can take the infant mortality rate for example. We needed to fix things because every year Cuba comes out with an incredibly low figure for an impoverished country. Well, dig just a bit deeper and you find Cuban-Americans also have a low infant mortality rate and Cuba is an outlier in how much it spends on healthcare (with obvious impoverishing effects elsewhere). They like to point to Japan's 2% rate, America needs to be like Japan. But do they ever mention that the Japanese abort pretty much every baby conceived out of wedlock? In 1980 something there were a total of something like 18 births to mothers 15 and under. That's insanely low. They also never mention the chronically high peripartum morbidity rates of 3 times the USA, or the sever lack of neonatal physicians and nurses at birthing hospitals (neither do the Canadians for that matter). Our healthcare system is expensive because we take care of people and believe in treating employees fairly. Japan under-staffs and overworks their medical staff to the bones.

These things rarely make it into the discussion. Instead it's look I have a statistic so you're monolithic, narrow-minded, dogmatic ideologue.

Japan is boosting their expenditure on health care costs due to the (8% of GDP I think it was) causing hospitals to go bankrupt-- however, you fail to acknowledge that they've ramped up their spending, hospitals are back in the green, and yet they're still spending orders of magnitude less than the US.

Does Germany have any of the problems that you've mentioned?

 

[Deleted member 848]

1. Cut our millitary and let the world fall apart.

Who is saying we need to cut military?

2. Cut our corporate tax rate to Germany's level and watch US companies gobble up the economies of Germany, Japan, Italy, France, UK, etc. They fall apart.

Not sure what cutting corporate tax rates to 29.8% has to do with anything here. Still, your point reminds me of an interesting article I came across recently-- consider the following:

The United States may soon wind up with a distinction that makes business leaders cringe — the highest corporate tax rate in the world.

Topping out at 35 percent, America’s official corporate income tax rate trails that of only Japan, at 39.5 percent, which has said it plans to lower its rate. It is nearly triple Ireland’s and 10 percentage points higher than in Denmark, Austria or China. To help companies here stay competitive, many executives say, Congress should lower it.

But by taking advantage of myriad breaks and loopholes that other countries generally do not offer, United States corporations pay only slightly more on average than their counterparts in other industrial countries. And some American corporations use aggressive strategies to pay less — often far less — than their competitors abroad and at home. A Government Accountability Office study released in 2008 found that 55 percent of United States companies paid no federal income taxes during at least one year in a seven-year period it studied.

Well, there go your plans for worldwide domination. Go ahead and like THIS post, PKBro.

3. Treat our healthcare workers like overworked dogs. Pay then little to nothing and let the lines from under-staffing flow out the doors.

Your use of 2006 Japan as the only example of different health care system that the US could emulate is perplexing, and narrow-minded. Tens of other health care systems that treat workers justly & provide universal coverage to all of their citizens.

4. Engaging currency war and other modern mercantilistic wars on Germany, Japan, and China to even the playing field. The export dependent nations always lose those battles.

We can do it like the rest of the world but we have higher moral ideals than pegging happiness to wealth while forgetting all that really matters.

babe-esque mythical rambling that is 100% out of touch with reality. In a society that revolves around money, money is needed to live happily. After a certain extent, increasing amounts of money has no impact-- but some money is needed. Unfortunately, America's income inequality problem leaves vast portions of the population with no money, while not bothering taxing the rich who don't need th money.

 

[VINYLONE]

Curious. Why is income inequality something that should be addressed?

I don't think it should but I also think the clearing mechanisms that have been developed in our systems need to be applied across the board.

 

[jimmy eat jazz]

Life outside of college changes most perspectives. It's also why those who are career academia are kinda out of touch with reality.

As someone who spend many years in academics, and who, I dare say, knows far more academics that you, I can say that this assertion is pure BS.