Matthews: Jazz never made me an offer. I would have accepted less.

[mellow]

I'm sorry if this was mentioned earlier, didn't have time to read all of the posts...

"tribjazz Wesley Matthews charges Jazz never made him an offer, but team was told from beginning it would take max midlevel to re-sign him."

Matthews camp clearly thought his value was a full MLE from the start. If his camp was firm on this why would the Jazz submit a contract offer without knowing really what his market value was? I don't think the FO played this wrong. And while I do like Matthews I also can't help to think that he may be another Jazz guard who is a product of the system. Shandon Anderson 2.0?

Nice. This is the rest of the story. Mathews says he'd signed with the jazz for a 'fair offer' but in his camp that meant the entire midlevel and who knows how many years. There were obviously questions about whether he was worth that. If the jazz who had seen him every day for nine months were sure about him then they'd signed him. Feel bad for Wes, but he didn't have to sign that offer sheet--now he is at the mercy of portland where he has some nice seats to watch NBA games while he waits for his enevitable trade.

Does this make Portland more pissed at the jazz? I wish we could've keept Koufus just to see if they would offer him $10 Million next summer.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

Maybe bringing Brewer back is not so predictable. Via Twitter

tribjazz

Text from agent Henry Thomas this morning that Raja Bell signing takes Jazz out of running to bring back Ronnie Brewer.

Looks like Chicago has yet another Utah player.

 

[gregbroncs]

Maybe bringing Brewer back is not so predictable. Via Twitter

tribjazz

Text from agent Henry Thomas this morning that Raja Bell signing takes Jazz out of running to bring back Ronnie Brewer.

YEEEESSSSSS. Hell yea. I like this deal 100X more now if it ended the chance of bringing back Brewer.

 

[InGameStrategy]

Still, KOC should made a reasonable offer to show good faith. And not be a hard ***, like he is. Might be good business, but not good human relations. I thought that's what the Jazz represented. Good character.

This is how write4u pictures it:
Matthews' agent: What's your offer for Wes?
KOC: OK, we'll offer him 4 years, $16 million. Same as CJ.
Matthews' agent: We are looking to get something around the MLE and expect to be able to land it.
KOC: All right; 5 years, $20 million. In good faith. Because we like him.

<< rolleyes >>

 

[InGameStrategy]

YEEEESSSSSS. Hell yea. I like this deal 100X more now if it ended the chance of bringing back Brewer.

Haha. Othyus Jeffers is a very poor man's Brewer. As much as I like Brew, Raja Bell is more valuable. I wonder if Utah can still land Barnes or someone else.

 

[write4u]

I pictured the Jazz making a legit offfer Matthews, but after reading a statement from Portland mgt about targeting Matthews on Realgm, it appears they wanted him more than we did. Believe it or not.

 

[Chad Feldheimer]

I pictured the Jazz making a legit offfer Matthews, but after reading a statement from Portland mgt about targeting Matthews on Realgm, it appears they wanted him more than we did. Believe it or not.

What offer were the Jazz going to make that would have been a good deal for the Jazz that Matthews would have taken without looking around?

 

[billyshelby]

What offer were the Jazz going to make that would have been a good deal for the Jazz that Matthews would have taken without looking around?

I predict the answer to this question won't make sense.

 

[Chad Feldheimer]

I predict the answer to this question won't make sense.

or better yet what offer would they have made that would have been better than the 3y/10M they got with Raja

 

[1-Jazzfan]

Smells like PK.

I was thinking the same thing!

 

[craig2112]

I just can't buy any of this. If Mathews wanted to stay with the Jazz, he could have. He signed the big deal and his agent gushed about how happy they all were.

Am I really supposed to believe that Wes wanted the jazz to give him less money to keep him here? He just wanted to be treated with respect? Come on!
Oh, so when Wes got the offer from the Blazers, did he call the jazz and say "I would much rather stay in Utah, give me this much and I stay"??
No, he signed as fast as he could, thinking about the money first.

I have a MUCH easier time believing KOC on this one. They talked to the agent and the agent made his demands. I can't believe that the agent was waiting for the jazz to make an offer. It just doesn't work that way.

Sounds to me like Wes is covering his arse. Maybe he is also upset that he just realized that he is stuck with the Blazers and sitting on the bench.

 

[//r00t 4 Jazz]

I guess Pat Riley sucks to he let Haslem go check with other teams and didn't offer him a contract either, BUT THE DIFFERENCE IS Haslem being older and a bit more savvy went back to the Heat saying this is what Dallas and Denver are offering what can you offer and ended up taking less, granted it is with a team projected to win the East and go to the finals for years to come but I think it gets my point across.

 

[1-Jazzfan]

I get your point, and still it is not valid. Wolves are WELL under the CAP without Jefferson. They don't need Dampier to absorb any contract, then can flat out accept it with their CAP room. Even if they were not under CAP, they could use TPE they got from us to do exactly what you are proposing with Dampier. The bottom line is Dampier has the same value as TPE. Actually worse, because TPE is good for a year, and Damp's contract has to be terminated before start of season. No matter how you slice it, Dallas having Dampier does not give them any advantage of our TPE. If anything, TPE has the advantage here, as I explained before, plus we had better draft picks than Dallas.

Ya, back to the Dampier contract. Dallas probably would have gotten AJ, but they insisted on packaging DeShawn Stevenson and Matt Carroll in the deal. Minnesota didn't want those guys or their contracts, and since KOC was giving them two first round picks and only asking for them to take Kosta's contract of a measly 1.3 this year, Minnesota was like, Ok, let's make the deal.

Dampier's contract is only worth more than the Trade exception because if they could have just swapped players, Dampier's contract would be dumped and Minnesota wouldn't have to make a trade to get the benefit, it would be instant gratification.

But Dallas/Cuban wanted to dump DeSteve and Carroll and Minnesota said no way.

To me that's all their is to say about it.

 

[One Brow]

Harcher, I'm not so fast to concede this matter for the following reasosn:

This was a thoroughly reasonable post, that I agreed with completely.

Of course not. Just like you never conceded Dwill was frustrated even when pointed an article, where he actually said it.

Your confirmation bias is quite severe. William's level of frustation, as described in the relevant article, was no where near the level you portrayed it to be.

Ross Siler just pwned wrong4u on Tweeter.

https://twitter.com/tribjazz

Thanks for bringing reality to the discussion, honz.

Why do you guys keep playing KOC's role in your imagination and keep thinking the best of his intentions and defending him? Maybe ..., maybe ... may have ... the most reasonable scenario ... .

Considering all the maybe's you keep throwing around, why not go gets some actuals before you criticize other people for having their own opinions on O.Connor's role?

Well, who do you believe then? Matthews said there was no offer. KOC never even tried to negotiate.

What I don't believe is a person who is so dense they thing "was no offer" means "never even tried to negotiate".

Still, KOC should made a reasonable offer to show good faith.

"An offer" would be a written contract, ready to sign, based upon previous negotiations. If negotiations never reached the point of an agreement, why would there be an offer?

 

[mellow]

Not making an official offer is not the same as not negotiating. BUt if you're still hanging on to Wes, how about this-- Wes COuld've said, " I'm not accepting any offers from any team untill I get a fair offer from the jazz." It puts the burden on KOC and probably would get him close to the MLE and a starting job in Utah.

If he wanted to be back so bad he should've explored that option, I guess he is a bad negotiator.

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

PLease, this is just Wesley trying to stay in good standings with us fans.

 

[One Brow]

Apparently there is a limit on multi-quote, so I needed to have a second post in a row to respond to everything.

OK, so we are finally on the same page, and you now agree Jazz never negotiated.

Actually, you have agreed the O'Connor did negotiate. When you sit down at a table, and say "we'd like to talk about 3 or 4 years at x rate", that *is* a megotiation. At most, you could say O'Connor didn't haggle. Walking away *is* a negotiation tactic.

The only difference of opinion now is that you "don't think any counter offers would be going anywhere", and I feel just make a fair counter offer and actually see if it is going anywhere or not. Never assume when you have a chance to actually see.

You are confusing a casual offer with an offer of a contract. The Jazz did not offer a contract. That doesn't mean they never outlined a general level of salary and timeframe.

I have a MUCH easier time believing KOC on this one. They talked to the agent and the agent made his demands. I can't believe that the agent was waiting for the jazz to make an offer. It just doesn't work that way.

Sounds to me like Wes is covering his arse. Maybe he is also upset that he just realized that he is stuck with the Blazers and sitting on the bench.

I agree.

 

[D Will> CP3]

What's the problem with offering Wes a contract like 4 year 16-20 mil and see if he accepts. In that case he may have signed. If he doesn't is then when you let him see what offer he gets and decide from there IMO (EX: Blazers offer too much so you let him go)

 

[Saint Cy of JFC]

What's the problem with offering Wes a contract like 4 year 16-20 mil and see if he accepts. In that case he may have signed. If he doesn't is then when you let him see what offer he gets and decide from there IMO (EX: Blazers offer too much so you let him go)

He wouldnt give up 12 million to stay in Utah, maybe he would of given up to 5 million, but anything over that no way, and I dont blame him.

 

[Archie Moses]

If Matthews wanted less, he wouldn't have signed that offer sheet. Anyways, I'm happy for Matthews. I think it's a great story, especially with him going undrafted. Take that money to the bank, son.