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Don't Ask, Don't Tell is officially history!!

The Pearl said:
katie got called out, not because McCain gets a free pass due to his military service but because in a beautiful bit of irony, she used the same type of stereotypes she so despises in others.
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Doesn't matter how you explain it. The dark cloak of hateful bigotry is securely pulled over their eyes. Friggin pathetic racists really.
 
TheMulletMutilator said:
I have no problems with them getting rid of this. I will however say that I do suspect there will be some incidents now with openly gay soldiers. I hate to stereotype the military but homophobia seems to run rampant.
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Please refrain from using the term gay. It is offensive to posters such as KatieMCR. Please go with Opposite Sexuality Americans, i think...
 
It was time for this to be repealed. Just as racial integration eventually smoothed out for our armed forces, so will sexual preference integration.

There is always going to be a fundamental fear/loathing of what is different, what is unknown, or what is unfamiliar. But in the case of people, does it not seem shortsighted? Transport yourself back in time to just before racial integration of the armies and ask yourself, "What's the big deal here? Why can't these guys who *want* to serve in the army be allowed to do so? Are they so different that they should not be allowed to defend the country and our way of life?" Now come back to the present and ask yourself the same thing about homosexuals/transgendered/whatever term(s) Katie uses.
 
chemdude1232 said:
It was time for this to be repealed. Just as racial integration eventually smoothed out for our armed forces, so will sexual preference integration.

There is always going to be a fundamental fear/loathing of what is different, what is unknown, or what is unfamiliar. But in the case of people, does it not seem shortsighted? Transport yourself back in time to just before racial integration of the armies and ask yourself, "What's the big deal here? Why can't these guys who *want* to serve in the army be allowed to do so? Are they so different that they should not be allowed to defend the country and our way of life?" Now come back to the present and ask yourself the same thing about homosexuals/transgendered/whatever term(s) Katie uses.
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Homophobe, I believe is the term.
 
Gameface said:
That has not been my experience in the Navy. There was a lesbian woman working for me in my workcenter. She was pretty open and had zero problems with anyone. There were also a few guys I knew were gay, they were not open to me about it but didn't seem to be hiding it, either. Again, they seemed to get their jobs done just fine, along with everyone around them.

I can imagine there is an argument to be made that it is different in combat units in the Army and Marines, but my own experience in one particular branch leads me to believe that this will not cause any major problems.
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I have had the same experance in the Air Force. Its been fairly open for years.
 
chemdude1232 said:
It was time for this to be repealed. Just as racial integration eventually smoothed out for our armed forces, so will sexual preference integration.

There is always going to be a fundamental fear/loathing of what is different, what is unknown, or what is unfamiliar. But in the case of people, does it not seem shortsighted? Transport yourself back in time to just before racial integration of the armies and ask yourself, "What's the big deal here? Why can't these guys who *want* to serve in the army be allowed to do so? Are they so different that they should not be allowed to defend the country and our way of life?" Now come back to the present and ask yourself the same thing about homosexuals/transgendered/whatever term(s) Katie uses.
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This is a popular argument for appealing the band, however, it is intellectually lazy.

Blacks were largely shunned from military service due to ingrained beliefs that they were incompetent, lazy, disloyal to the U.S., and intellectually inferior. Most issues involving homosexuals in the military are logistical, much more akin to shunning women away from military service. For instance, other than Aviation, women still are not allowed slots in the combat branches of the US Army.
 
I understand that point you made, yet one can make a counterargument that, no matter their role, they ("they" being "women/gays/what have you") are indeed helping.

Add in the fact that GameFace and GoJazz have said that - in their experiences - there has not been any overt problems caused by homosexuals serving, then does that not add to the impetus to repeal it?
 
This is going to be one of those things that when I explain it to my kids years from now, they won't believe. "Gays couldn't serve in the military openly? Next you'll tell me you didn't have any cell phones."
 
DeliveryBoy said:
This is going to be one of those things that when I explain it to my kids years from now, they won't believe. "Gays couldn't serve in the military openly? Next you'll tell me you didn't have any cell phones."
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Actually, by then homosexagentransuals will be extinct. Tard. Can't procreate, ya see?
 
chemdude1232 said:
I understand that point you made, yet one can make a counterargument that, no matter their role, they ("they" being "women/gays/what have you") are indeed helping.

Add in the fact that GameFace and GoJazz have said that - in their experiences - there has not been any overt problems caused by homosexuals serving, then does that not add to the impetus to repeal it?
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That argument is a logical fallacy that doesn't address logistics. For the record I support the ban.

The argument fails due to the fact not that gays currently serving are not helping, but rather by eliminating them the military would be less effective. The first is no doubt true, the second is probably false unless gays serving have a higher probability of doing a better job than if they are replaced by straight soldiers. I would suspect gay service members competency is about equally distributed as straight soldiers.
 
DeliveryBoy said:
This is going to be one of those things that when I explain it to my kids years from now, they won't believe. "Gays couldn't serve in the military openly? Next you'll tell me you didn't have any cell phones."
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This will no doubt be true but it won't be due to the lifting of the ban.
 
DutchJazzer said:
so what scientific studies prove that being gay is not a choice.
imho being gay is a choice so they have control over being gay so i can attack them right?
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Tell me when you had to decided to be straight and we might have a discussion from there.
 
I don't think the elimination of gays would make the military less effective. This is not a question of who is more competent at their job (I'm sure gays are just as competent as heterosexuals). This is a question (for me at least) of supplying man power to achieve a goal, and in my supposed logically fallible mind, more people in the military has the net effect of making "completing the job" easier. Assuming, of course, that everyone can get past their 2nd grade "we don't like different people" mindset and do their jobs.
 
chemdude1232 said:
I don't think the elimination of gays would make the military less effective. This is not a question of who is more competent at their job (I'm sure gays are just as competent as heterosexuals). This is a question (for me at least) of supplying man power to achieve a goal, and in my supposed logically fallible mind, more people in the military has the net effect of making "completing the job" easier. Assuming, of course, that everyone can get past their 2nd grade "we don't like different people" mindset and do their jobs.
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You would probably be shocked to know that the military as a whole is far more socially liberal than most Americans would guess. In fact, I would say most military members have a much more enlightened, well rounded view on a wide range of subjects than most civilians.
 
The Pearl said:
This only flies if you interpret McCain's stance as being an act of bigotry. Wrong? Probably. Misguided? Probably. Is McCain a homophobe? I doubt it.
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Who said McCain is a homophobe?

The Pearl said:
This is a popular argument for appealing the band, however, it is intellectually lazy.

Blacks were largely shunned from military service due to ingrained beliefs that they were incompetent, lazy, disloyal to the U.S., and intellectually inferior. Most issues involving homosexuals in the military are logistical, much more akin to shunning women away from military service. For instance, other than Aviation, women still are not allowed slots in the combat branches of the US Army.
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Yeah, but that argument is provably incorrect and plainly stupid (at least as it pertains to homosexuals).
 
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