Police Power and Racial Tensions in Ferguson, Missouri

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We typically have zero sympathy for other races that break the law and are incarcerated, so why do blacks get some sort of special attention?

GVC's point was that black do get special attention. They get frisked more, they get arrested more (despite having contraband less often), they get convicted more, they get longer prison sentences, etc. You don't want that kind of special attention. Seriously.

 

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So the protestors realize that the deceased was breaking a law and no so innocent and now they have to shift their blind hate to something else because they realize they were wrong the first time around?

You have confused the camel's load with the back-breaking straw.

 

[Stoked]

I agree. Zimmerman was white, period.



How nice for you that you can decide for large groups of people who does and does not speak to their interests.



Well, the white man has come down to tell us who the true disciples of MLK are! Thank goodness, it was so confusing before you showed up.[/sarcasm]

Honest question about the Sharpton and Jackson comment. If there are a pair of spokesmen (specifically the two just mentioned) that get toned out everytime they speak wouldn't it be more beneficial to replace them? Personally I am not telling the black community to have as their spokesman. That is their choice. But I also have no interest in what those two men say as I feel they are insincere and have no honest intention of improving anything.

 

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See, this is all just crap, You are creating straw man after straw man and whining that nobody is seeing things your way.

Facts are not straw men. GVC was explaining and defending his point.

The laws that you have outlined as being hostile to blacks are generally gang centered.

*guffaw*. That was laughably ignorant.

Yes, some, but it would also hurt many others who are daily threatened by gang influences in their neighborhood.

Gangs thrive on illegality of marijuana; if you make it legal, you take away an income source.

And yet there you sit saying that these laws are passed as an organized attempt to "get blackie!" and it is disgusting.

Nowhere did GVC claim it was an organized attempt. That's your straw man.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Honest question about the Sharpton and Jackson comment. If there are a pair of spokesmen (specifically the two just mentioned) that get toned out everytime they speak wouldn't it be more beneficial to replace them? Personally I am not telling the black community to have as their spokesman. That is their choice. But I also have no interest in what those two men say as I feel they are insincere and have no honest intention of improving anything.

There are a plethora of capable "spokesmen" for the greater black community, but the ones that will get most media coverage tend to be the ones that are most militant, or sensationalized-- to the extent where people actually think that Al Sharpton represents all black people (what in the actual ****, btw).

Instead of questioning why Al is the spokesman for black people, we should instead be inquiring why news outlets portray contemporary black politics as such.

 

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One of the biggest failings of black leaders like Sharpton and Jackson is that they have not explained this and worked towards true change of those conditions sufficiently, imo.

You think they haven't explained this? You don't think that these explanations simply get passed over bu tjhe media in favor of more fiery rhetoric?

 

[Stoked]

There are a plethora of capable "spokesmen" for the greater black community, but the ones that will get most media coverage tend to be the ones that are most militant, or sensationalized-- to the extent where people actually think that Al Sharpton represents all black people (what in the actual ****, btw).

Instead of questioning why Al is the spokesman for black people, we should instead be inquiring why news outlets portray contemporary black politics as such.

Very good point. You are right in that they are big names and draw the news crews. As far as the media goes...well they are after ratings and no longer about the news.

I agree that there are a plethora of capable spokesmen. I would be much more willing to listen to them and their points personally.

If I implied that he represents all black people that was my mistake. However he is a spokesman and one that I do not trust at all. To bad he gets the lime light instead of others.

 

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Yes. How people go about being upset is another issue. You don't get things changed by rioting and looting, but by getting involved and playing the game.

Protesting has always been part of that game.

I can't comment on this because I think it's BS. At what point will they no longer be able to claim oppression?

When unequal outcomes for equal offenses stops.

... we're talking about an entire race of people (black folks, as you call them) who are content with being the victims.

There is nothing wrong with black culture that will not be fixed by the dismantling of white superiority. (Ta Nehsi Coates).

 

[Stoked]

You think they haven't explained this? You don't think that these explanations simply get passed over bu tjhe media in favor of more fiery rhetoric?

Honestly I feel that those two men are more interested in promoting themselves.

 

[Deleted member 848]

Honestly I feel that those two men are more interested in promoting themselves.

You're both right, IMO. Al and Rev have both highlighted deep-seated, and important race-relations issues in their lifetimes.


However, they are both certainly not the most ideal spokesmen for highlighting black issues, and provoking political change in my opinion.

 

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Is there really evidence of this, or is it just conjecture?

There really is evidence of this.

However, does this not affect all poor people that commit crimes equally?

Poor black get treated worse than poor whites, and wealthy blacks get treated worse than wealthy whites. Class matters, but so does race.

And yes, I understand blacks are generally poorer, but so are many people of other races. So again, I ask honestly, what is the fix?

No solutions will happen without awareness.

 

[The Pearl]

Regardless of the social backdrop, isn't the only relevant question at hand being if the officer's action was justified?

 

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I agree with you there, but that is just a piece of the oppression pie. That alone will not stop blacks from being oppressed. And many of the programs intended to help poor blacks (welfare, affirmative action, etc.) actually have the opposite effect.

If you compared starvation rates before and after welfare, it's hard to argue that it made things worse. If you argue employment rates before and after affirmative action, it's again hard to argue it made things worse. Reducing the number of criminal convictions will improve many things, starting with employment.

 

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I agree. That **** costs money though. Tax payer money.

Perhaps some of the money spent on riot gear could be diverted into cameras?

If Wilson was justified because Brown charged him, they could have released a tape (or at least promised to release a tape) showing this. Protests averted. If Wilson was not justified because Brown was not charging, they could also have had a quick response (immediate suspension, quick arrest), and avoided the riots.

 

[Stoked]

There really is evidence of this.

Poor black get treated worse than poor whites, and wealthy blacks get treated worse than wealthy whites. Class matters, but so does race.

No solutions will happen without awareness.

I feel that the awareness is there. People know that blacks suffer greater police scrutiny. They know they have a harder time in college acceptance and job interviews. They know that the income levels are skewed. So while that awareness is needed it is not enough.

Time for the next step. For me that is education.

 

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Edit: Also the arrests made by police are further fueling the tension and violence. This is proven to me by the escalation in violence. Such as the use of molotov cocktails, shootings and rocks being thrown at police. Those taking part in the violence can say whatever they want about the reasons but they have 0 credibility in my eyes. They ruined businesses, lives, property, the peaceful protests, the public and police opinions about the protests and tarnished this case even further. Shameful

I agreed with most of your post. However, most of the protesters seem to approve of the arrest of the violent people in their group. These protests started off being organized by local churches and politicians; they don't want violence any more than the police do. The issues is at least partly that there was a huge over-reaction on last Tuesday and Wednesday to the violence, which has poisoned the dialogue.

 

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If both Brown and Johnson cooperated with hands up, why did Wilson let Johnson live and shoot Brown then? If you are going to commit murder, why leave a key witness to your crime?

Why did the big guy get shot and the little guy not? Is it really that hard to fathom? Also, "going to commit murder" implies some sort of planning on Wilson's part; I don't think any such planning was involved.

 

[Stoked]

I agreed with most of your post. However, most of the protesters seem to approve of the arrest of the violent people in their group. These protests started off being organized by local churches and politicians; they don't want violence any more than the police do. The issues is at least partly that there was a huge over-reaction on last Tuesday and Wednesday to the violence, which has poisoned the dialogue.

We have gone over this. The violence started before the heavy handed police prescence. The police, when they did respond, did so disproportionally. Did the police reaction poison the dialouge? Yes but no more so then the start of violence. IMO at least.

Also I tried to distinguish between the peaceful protestors and those there for violence by saying "Those taking part in the violence...". I agree that they are not mutually inclusive.

 

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He was pissed of that a bunch of white guys were voicing their opinions on it at all.

Which is different from saying that white men are not allowed to have or voice opinions. You think your opinions are so good that they should never piss people off?

Also you mention regularly the systematic oppression suffered by minorities, particularly blacks, at the hands of police (we all know there are studies that show this, agreed). Wouldn't Michael Brown know this and wouldn't it affect his opinion and reactions to this police officer? Regardless of the value of the item he allegedly stole? Your comment about the cigaretts implies that he would ignore all of that and that it wouldn't affect his attitude. Maybe I am reading it wrong.

I don't know that Brown was up on the statistical differences, but you have a point that he probably realized he would not be in for fair treatment, and that would affect his behavior.

 

[Stoked]

You're both right, IMO. Al and Rev have both highlighted deep-seated, and important race-relations issues in their lifetimes.


However, they are both certainly not the most ideal spokesmen for highlighting black issues, and provoking political change in my opinion.

I honestly feel that they are no longer capable of achieving the change they may want. There are others more capable of accomplishing that task. If only from the intitial reaction their names receive.

When I heard that Sharpton was in Ferguson I groaned.