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2011 draft.....

Hell, looking at it, last year's #12 was drafted as much for his defense than offense. Henry came off as a well rounded role player that is capable at offense and defense. Singleton comes across as the no offense, all defense prospect, and Fredette comes across as the all offense, no defense prospect.

You look at the draft history of the #12, and all you see is drafting for role players with one set skill or no outstanding skills.

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So history says you're going to get a guy who averages 7.5 points with a ceiling of Mookie Blaylock. Want a guy who averages 7.0 and plays great defense, or a guy who averages 8.0 points with horrible defense?

At #12, you're drafting for a role player. If Singleton shows to be a damn fine player on the defensive end in workouts, then he's a guy you can draft at #12 with no issues.
 
Believe me, I'm as big a fan as you about getting a good rotation player at 12 as anyone. But Singleton isn't this low risk rotation player you dream him to be. Your whole argument is that we KNOW he'll be a lockdown defender. We don't know that. Even worse, he's almost guaranteed to score so ineffectively at the next level that he if he isn't a lockdown defender, he can't even be on the court. The best wing defenders in the history of the league were not drafted high. There's a reason for that.
 
Singleton won't be the main go-to guy on the Jazz. If he can be a Tony Allen or Battier type, then I'd be OK with that. Heaven knows we don't need another chucker. Unfortunately, KOC likes offensively skilled guys, so the Ibakas will always be passed over for the Koufos's every single year.
 
billyshelby said:
Believe me, I'm as big a fan as you about getting a good rotation player at 12 as anyone. But Singleton isn't this low risk rotation player you dream him to be. Your whole argument is that we KNOW he'll be a lockdown defender. We don't know that. Even worse, he's almost guaranteed to score so ineffectively at the next level that he if he isn't a lockdown defender, he can't even be on the court. The best wing defenders in the history of the league were not drafted high. There's a reason for that.
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No, the argument is A) it's not crazy, as you claim, to consider Singleton for the #12 draft pick, B) drafting a defensive wing at #12 is not a bad idea since all you're drafting for is a role player anyway, C) drafting an offensive player, Euro, or big at #12 is under the same scrutiny you're putting Singleton under, making your point moot since most #12 draft picks DON'T pan out anyway, so why not draft a guy known for defense, as that's a definite weak point on the team?

The best wing defenders in the history of the league are generally superstars that were taken early. And defensive specialists are ignored in favor of the lower tier offensive players that get drafted. The #12 draft pick generally sucks in the NBA. There's a reason for that.
 
I dunno. I think Billy's pretty persuasive. If whoever the Jazz draft at 12 will probably suck anyway maybe it's better to gamble on someone with a higher ceiling.
 
If we take Kanter at 3 and Vesely doesn't drop to 12, I would be on board with taking Chris Singleton there, but I'm also intrigued by Jimmer and Josh Selby.
 
Darkwing Duck said:
Hell, looking at it, last year's #12 was drafted as much for his defense than offense. Henry came off as a well rounded role player that is capable at offense and defense. Singleton comes across as the no offense, all defense prospect, and Fredette comes across as the all offense, no defense prospect.

You look at the draft history of the #12, and all you see is drafting for role players with one set skill or no outstanding skills.

1278ff6030064c2c8f6671acd94cc3cb


So history says you're going to get a guy who averages 7.5 points with a ceiling of Mookie Blaylock. Want a guy who averages 7.0 and plays great defense, or a guy who averages 8.0 points with horrible defense?

At #12, you're drafting for a role player. If Singleton shows to be a damn fine player on the defensive end in workouts, then he's a guy you can draft at #12 with no issues.
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Chris Singletons offense >>>>>>>>> Jimmers defense, very moot comparison.
 
dalamon said:
Chris Singletons offense >>>>>>>>> Jimmers defense, very moot comparison.
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I think it might be more like Chris Singleton's offense vs Klay Thompson's defense. Or Singleton's defense vs Thompson's ability to knock down an open jumper and spread the floor.
 
Speaking of who to gamble on with the 12th pick I'm tempted once again to consider Marshon Brooks. His impressive wingspan has forced me to consider him once again. Potential is there to be really good, even if he is really annoying.
 
Darkwing Duck said:
No, the argument is A) it's not crazy, as you claim, to consider Singleton for the #12 draft pick, B) drafting a defensive wing at #12 is not a bad idea since all you're drafting for is a role player anyway, C) drafting an offensive player, Euro, or big at #12 is under the same scrutiny you're putting Singleton under, making your point moot since most #12 draft picks DON'T pan out anyway, so why not draft a guy known for defense, as that's a definite weak point on the team?

The best wing defenders in the history of the league are generally superstars that were taken early. And defensive specialists are ignored in favor of the lower tier offensive players that get drafted. The #12 draft pick generally sucks in the NBA. There's a reason for that.
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Then we have a difference in philosophy. For my money, I'd be looking at guys like Burks or Thompson at 12 (as wing prospects.) Guys who have actual upside as 2 way players in the NBA. I don't know much about Hamilton but he intrigues me as well. Personally, I like the Mirotic kid who I believe has a buyout issue that will cause him to slide. I wouldn't mind trading back from the 12 to pick him up. He's already putting up solid numbers overseas which I like.
 
billyshelby said:
Then we have a difference in philosophy. For my money, I'd be looking at guys like Burks or Thompson at 12 (as wing prospects.) Guys who have actual upside as 2 way players in the NBA. I don't know much about Hamilton but he intrigues me as well. Personally, I like the Mirotic kid who I believe has a buyout issue that will cause him to slide. I wouldn't mind trading back from the 12 to pick him up. He's already putting up solid numbers overseas which I like.
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I like Mirotic a lot too. He and Bertans are the best 6'10" and above shooters in the draft, but he has a really bad contract. Just extended it with Real Madrid. Dont think he has a buyout until 2013 or so. So we would have to be really patient. If we go with Knight at 3 Vesely is a no brainer at 12 and Montiejus (sp) would have to be considered. Obviously he is the next Nowitzki. :)
 
Forgot about Bertrans. He's definitely a guy to take a long look at as well. An upside wing that comes over or gets stashed would not bother me, and I kind of like the idea of a later first and acceptable second in this draft. One more throw at a dart board scouts seem to think isn't wildly different from 12 to 40.
 
I am still not sure why Enes Kanter didn't mention the Utah Jazz as a place that he would like to play. I understand why he didn't interview with them at the combine, because why interview right now if you are scheduled to spend the whole day with the Jazz on June 2nd and will have plenty of interviews there. Maybe because he says his preferred positon is power forward, but why can't Favors play center and have Kanter at power forward?

Enes Kanter on playing for the Jazz:

"(Salt Lake City) is a great city and a great place to play, and (the Jazz have a) really good team," said the 6-foot-11 Kanter, who said his preferred position is power forward although he also plays center. "I followed them when I was in Turkey."
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Brandon Knight on playing for the Jazz:

"I wouldn't mind going there," Knight said. "It's a great city. They always have a great group of guys. I want to surround myself with a good group of guys. I like the things Utah is about. I'd enjoy going to Utah."
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