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Can/Will Lyles make Favors expendable?

green said:
Lyles is irrelevant to Favors' future in Utah. Here is why:

You can only max three players under the current CBA.

Hayward is max player #1.

The Jazz like Gobert more than Favors. Gobert might be max player #2.

So, who is #3? Is it Favors?

Does a max three of Favors, Hayward and Gobert win you a title?

Nope.

So, if you are sold on Gobert, like Utah is, and you are sold on Hayward, like Utah obviously is, then Favors doesn't have a future here.

The math is pretty simple.

Utah will try to move Favors and Hood for a max wing player and pray like crazy that Exum takes some huge steps forward.
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Excellent post. I agree 100%. Sooner rather than later, I think we choose between Favors and Gobert. One of those guys will be a max player and the other will not stay long term. Lyles will have the qualities of a good NBA starter before these last two years of Favors' contract is up. My guess is that we will look to make a major deal at this exact time next year. We will have answers to the following questions:

1. - how good did we do after adding 3 key vets?
2. - how did Burks do? Did he stay healthy?
3. - does Exum look ready to emerge as a star or is his ceiling that of a George Hill, defensive type PG starter?
4. - did Gobert show that he can help on offense or is he just going to be a rebounding rim protector?
5. - did Favors show that he is a future All Star or just a very solid big man?
6. - is Hayward a star? Did he decide to stay with us?
7. - how did the older vets do? Does George, Diaw or others want to stay?
8. - how ready is Lyles to be a starter?
9. - did Hood get even better which puts him into that near max contract conversation?
 
He will never make him expendable but he gives us the ability to move on without him if necessary.
 
King Cy said:
He will never make him expendable but he gives us the ability to move on without him if necessary.
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Doesn't that mean expendable? Whether Favors is traded or allowed to leave, Lyles would have made him expendable right?
 
We may need to move favs in the next two years because of salary... Hopefully Trey is ready and hopefully we get a haul for favs cuz he's really good and it would be quite a big loss.
 
Luxury tax means Jazz will need to move on from a couple of players. IMO, that's probably Favors and Burks (and no re-sign of Hill). Utah will need to replace them with players on rookie deals.
 
I want to see Favors play with a real PG before I even think about moving him.
I always wonder how Malone's career would have turned out playing with sub par PG's.
 
Michaelr said:
I want to see Favors play with a real PG before I even think about moving him.
I always wonder how Malone's career would have turned out playing with sub par PG's.
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Although I think Favors is the odd man out, I can agree with this. He gets this year with this deep roster of youth and vets to show us if he's worth building around.

We should extend his contract to something that's fantastic trade bait next summer. If we want to keep him, he's extended for the long term. If we think we must trade him, then he's already signed long term to a deal that's less than the 2017 summer max which makes him a damn good trade chip.
 
I agree with most everyone, except the sheer idea of how bad our defensive would be. Lyles is so slow on defense that he reminds me a lot of Boozer. I know he isn't that bad, but he isn't that much better either. Favors is the glue that holds this internal defense together IMO. But what the hell do I know. I don't have stats to back up that. I just go by what I see. And it seems like when Favs helps, it opens up lanes for Gobert to raise hell. I'm just not sure Lyles will ever be defensively what Favors is. And that is something I think a lot of us take for granted.
 
themanknownassting said:
I agree with most everyone, except the sheer idea of how bad our defensive would be. Lyles is so slow on defense that he reminds me a lot of Boozer. I know he isn't that bad, but he isn't that much better either. Favors is the glue that holds this internal defense together IMO. But what the hell do I know. I don't have stats to back up that. I just go by what I see. And it seems like when Favs helps, it opens up lanes for Gobert to raise hell. I'm just not sure Lyles will ever be defensively what Favors is. And that is something I think a lot of us take for granted.
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I don't think Lyles will ever be as good defensively as Favors, but I also think the ceiling for Lyles on offense is incredibly high. And you keep a guy like Gobert to make up for a guy like Lyles. As long as he evolves to at least average defensively, our overall defense will be fine.

And another thing to consider - if we put together a small lineup, Hayward might play some PF. He could play with Gobert or Lyles.

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LoPo said:
I don't think Lyles will ever be as good defensively as Favors, but I also think the ceiling for Lyles on offense is incredibly high. And you keep a guy like Gobert to make up for a guy like Lyles. As long as he evolves to at least average defensively, our overall defense will be fine.

And another thing to consider - if we put together a small lineup, Hayward might play some PF. He could play with Gobert or Lyles.

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Our overall defense will be average. Average defenses don't win championships. Great defense does. I'm glad you see a star in Lyles. I don't see anything worth trading Favors for and that was the question. You trade Favs and put Lyles at the 4 and our wins drop substantially. But then again, no way Hayward takes anything less than the max, so someone has to go. It's going to be interesting to see how it plays out. Do you pay Hayward the max and disrupt the defensive identity that we took so long to build? Or do you trade Hayward in hopes you get something as good in return? Going to be intriguing the next few years.


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themanknownassting said:
Our overall defense will be average. Average defenses don't win championships. Great defense does. I'm glad you see a star in Lyles. I don't see anything worth trading Favors for and that was the question. You trade Favs and put Lyles at the 4 and our wins drop substantially. But then again, no way Hayward takes anything less than the max, so someone has to go. It's going to be interesting to see how it plays out. Do you pay Hayward the max and disrupt the defensive identity that we took so long to build? Or do you trade Hayward in hopes you get something as good in return? Going to be intriguing the next few years.


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I understand your points. I just feel like we will have major issues offensively in the playoffs with Favors and Gobert trying to play together. Lineups go small and I don't think we can sustain with those 2. Yes, they would be good defensively, but could we cover Draymond at C and Iggy at PF? Kawhi at PF and LA at C?

As of today, we couldn't rely on Lyles. I'm fully expecting him to evolve this year under Diaw, Favors and others.

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Just completed my 3 day road trip back to St. George and haven't read any posts past #1....

But I would say there's little chance Lyles makes anyone forget about Favors. I would add, though, that the look of the team on the floor should be drastically different between the two.

I for one am not in love with Favors and Gobert on the floor at the same time. I'd like to see Lyles/Gobert or Lyles/Favors... we need a true stretch out of at least one of the 4/5.
 
Lyles, at this point, is Brutal defensively, and a large morph of Trey Burke offensively. In other words, needs to continue developing. Favors is awesome defensively, and very good offensively. Derrick missed 20 games last year, and played in a few he shouldn't have. Had mostly back issues, but knee, I believe, kept him out of a couple games. I really like Derrick; great attitude, improves yearly, but has back issues. If I was management, I trade him while the value is there. He brings huge ROI for the salary he currently gets.
 
Dr. Jones said:
Just completed my 3 day road trip back to St. George and haven't read any posts past #1....

But I would say there's little chance Lyles makes anyone forget about Favors. I would add, though, that the look of the team on the floor should be drastically different between the two.

I for one am not in love with Favors and Gobert on the floor at the same time. I'd like to see Lyles/Gobert or Lyles/Favors... we need a true stretch out of at least one of the 4/5.
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I agree. It wouldn't shock me if Gobert/Favors don't see the floor together very much. Match up Favors/Diaw and Gobert/Lyles looks pretty good to me.

Then you always have a shooter on the floor (Diaw/Lyles) and a defender (Gobert/Favors). Now, before the smartasses come on here, Yeah, I realize that Lyles and Diaw will only get 15 or so minutes each night. But, when they do, they will be there to stretch the floor.
 
I would be shocked if lyles is ever as good a player as Dfav. If lyles does ever get to that level then that is an awesome situation.
 
Lyles and Trey Burke in one sentence? THat's foul...
Lyles is very streaky though. His 3 point range isn't reliable yet. I'm hoping he getts there though.
 
green said:
Lyles is irrelevant to Favors' future in Utah. Here is why:

You can only max three players under the current CBA.

Hayward is max player #1.

The Jazz like Gobert more than Favors. Gobert might be max player #2.

So, who is #3? Is it Favors?

Does a max three of Favors, Hayward and Gobert win you a title?

Nope.

So, if you are sold on Gobert, like Utah is, and you are sold on Hayward, like Utah obviously is, then Favors doesn't have a future here.

The math is pretty simple.

Utah will try to move Favors and Hood for a max wing player and pray like crazy that Exum takes some huge steps forward.
Click to expand...
And you think the Jazz are higher on Gobert than Favors why? I have seen no evidence of that, so please supply some.
 
gregbroncs said:
And you think the Jazz are higher on Gobert than Favors why? I have seen no evidence of that, so please supply some.
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Just things I've heard at Best Buy. I like Favors better but I was told that Utah loves Gobert's defense and they believe he and Exum can neutralize GS-type teams with their defense. A little birdy told me that they'd look to move Favors and Hood for a player that makes them a title contender next summer if they can resign Hayward. If Hayward leaves, they'd move those two for picks.

It's a message board so take it for what it's worth.
 
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